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jlar16
March 29th, 2008, 02:35 PM
Everyone should read this article on RealitySandwich....

actually surprised no one has mentioned this article before

http://www.realitysandwich.com/google_and_myceliation_consciousness

jlar16
March 30th, 2008, 10:09 AM
this may very well be the craziest article written by non-Googlist about the metaphysical nature of Google and it seems no one is interested...

rzm61
March 30th, 2008, 04:39 PM
I'm interested in it jlar, however I'll read it once I'm home.

jlar16
March 30th, 2008, 06:39 PM
article may seem a bit long for some so here is a part of it that can act as a summary....Here it also describes the 3 domains of Google myceletion.

for those of you not versed in mycology; myceletation is a play on words on how fungus grows...

Google is growing the mycelium in at least three interconnected domains. First, and most obvious, the increasingly differentiated and feature-rich extrapolations of search. The mycelial mat of meaning. The hardware and software that maintains and advances the infrastructure of quest and question. Second, the biological, biochemical web of interconnection we experience from Gaia to our own tuned in, turned on mind/brains. Third, the mycelial web of consciousness.

First things first. At the heart of Google’s web of meaning lives their guiding archetype: the quest. Not only search, but the search for the perfect search, the meta-search. Super-connectivity and super-conductivity running mazes of meaning. Shaving milliseconds off the appearance of results. Approaching the limit of relevance.

Second: the biological domain. A web of caring for life on Google Earth. Google.org. The Brilliant connection. Led by a man informed by psychedelics, spirituality, and service who instituted the Well – the early prototype of online community, conversation, connection, and activism among the west coast tribe, deep in the Altered State of California. An über-shaman with healing cred and technological chops. The ecodelic insight—we’re all connected here on Google Earth—prevails.

Third: the domain of consciousness. Habitual aware participation in domains one and two changes consciousness in and of itself. But what does it mean to institute a search for knowledge in the psychedelic sphere? What are the best practices, the algorithms with which to navigate multiple worlds and bring home the relevant bacon? The research on the use of psychedelics in creative problem solving was cut short with scheduling. Research continued, of course, in the underground, but was hampered by the chilling effect of the Drug War, primarily in the lines of communication by which findings are shared. Google makes it soooo much easier to find what’s there and start to piece it together, if only because so much of the vital publishing is not in print, nor peer-reviewed, nor orderly, but has found its way online.

jlar16
March 31st, 2008, 04:16 PM
are you people afraid to read things?

rzm61
March 31st, 2008, 04:17 PM
are you people afraid to read things?

Only things you post. ;)
But okay, lemme read the article.

jlar16
March 31st, 2008, 04:34 PM
found this part on why it behaves like mycelium

Every search returns a new (always new because always shifting and adding and growing) set of filaments connecting the searcher's quest to their potential grail. Every quest or re-quest weaves the mycelial mat of connections more densely: among people, data, images, jokes, video, ads, text messages, music, maps, and cultural artifacts of every communicable variety. It is Ted Nelson's intertwingulation heaven. And, of course, those filaments meet, mate, form hyphal knots. Some are fruitful, and a clump of mushrooms springs above the ground, out of the hidden mat.

Here on Google watch, I’m tracking the form of this whole wildly interconnecting activity that this desire to connect inscribes, the millions of simultaneous individual expressions of desire: searches, adclicks, where am I?, what's near me?, who's connected to whom? The desire extends the filaments, and energizes the constant linking and unlinking of the vast signaling system that lights up the mycelium. Periodic visits to the psychedelic sphere reveal the progress of this mycelial growth, as well as its back-history, future, origins, inhabitants, and purpose. Google is growing the cultural mycelial mat, advancing this process exponentially. Google is the first psychedelically informed super-power. Google is part of virtually everybody’s online day. The implications are staggering.


and this is what I have been saying the whole time in my posting about Google

it is all too clear the software we call natural language is painfully slow. Meaning manifests independently of language, though often finds itself entombed therein. But from this bootstrap move outside language, new insights arise regarding the structures and functions of natural language from a perspective that handles cognition with different tools, perceptions, sensory modalities—and produces new forms of language with new feature sets.

rzm61
March 31st, 2008, 05:14 PM
Well I'm still reading this article. I must say it is really interesting, I'm digging it.

jlar16
March 31st, 2008, 05:16 PM
anyone ever take a look at this:
http://www.google.com/corporate/tenthings.html

Someone posted that it is Google's real ten commandments

rzm61
March 31st, 2008, 05:22 PM
This has got to be my favorite:
9. You can be serious without a suit.

jlar16
March 31st, 2008, 05:52 PM
they are speaking for their vision of a better future


Google's culture is unlike any in corporate America....This highly communicative environment fosters a productivity and camaraderie fueled by the realization that millions of people rely on Google results. Give the proper tools to a group of people who like to make a difference, and they will.

Johnshadows
April 1st, 2008, 03:21 PM
Does it come in picture book format? just kidding i read it, its pretty good

Fallen Hero
April 1st, 2008, 03:36 PM
About the OP:

I started reading the article, but I disagree; Google does not have a similar function as psilocybin. They are the same, in that both can only make connections which already exist. With neither will you build a connection to something with you would not subconsciously be capable of connecting. That being said, I have to recognize that if we that the concept of thought being real and reality as we percieve it to be illusionary, psycedelics are hallucinogens; they alter our perception of reality. Could we not say that this is essentially adding a temporary colouring to water in a bowl, it does not change what water (the illusion) is, rather it put the water in another perspective and provides a secondary illusion of reality. So essentially Psilocybin provides an dream-like perception within a dream- to put it in other words.

Google on the other hand, is algorithmic in nature, it can do only what the algorithm permits. Google is constrained by parameters and defined by those constraints. Google does not alter the perception of reality, nor does it offer any transendence to another plane of existence nor logic nor intelligence. Google is simply a medium through which one can methodically and mathematically categorize and analyize relationships between abstact concepts and ideas.

I do not think that the author was correct in saying that psycedelics provide a path to knowledge, just as I do not feel that Google is a path to knowledge in it's own self, as a completely isolated entity. It requires a user capable of both language and critical thinking which allows for the parameters of the search to be defined.

Was an interesting read, but the parts of the text which you selected and the chunk that I read, I have to disagree with, there is really no significant co-relation between psycedelics and Google, nor either and true perception and knowledge.

jlar16
April 2nd, 2008, 07:36 AM
Originally said by Fallen Hero > With neither will you build a connection to something with you would not subconsciously be capable of connecting.

One thing I think that relates the two are the way that they change and use language. There is one theory "Stoned Ape" theory that postulates that human consciousness and intelligence evolved because of the consumption of fungi. It activates the language centers of the brain and makers language seen instead of heard. Through this new form of communication a plethora of new connections would be available- many that we could not think of now considering or current perceptions of reality.

I think this part of the article answers your argument the best though:
Google is the first psychedelically informed superpower to shape the noosphere and NASDAQ. I don't mean that Googlers (necessarily) are all seasoned psychonauts, or (necessarily) take 4:20 breaks on-campus, or are well represented (necessarily) at Burning Man. Nor am I saying that psychedelics “caused” Google, any more than a Stanford education did. I do mean that the core mission comes right out of the psychedelic atlas: a vision of super-connectivity and super-conductivity that is a hallmark of the psychedelic landscape...Every search returns a new (always new because always shifting and adding and growing) set of filaments connecting the searcher's quest to their potential grail. Every quest or re-quest weaves the mycelial mat of connections more densely: among people, data, images, jokes, video, ads, text messages, music, maps, and cultural artifacts of every communicable variety. It is Ted Nelson's intertwingulation heaven. And, of course, those filaments meet, mate, form hyphal knots. Some are fruitful, and a clump of mushrooms springs above the ground, out of the hidden mat.

And you speak of the subconscious but I would add that there is also such thing as a collective unconscious- and this is how we form connections not related to our own brain experiences.

Originally said by Fallen Hero > I have to recognize that if we that the concept of thought being real and reality as we percieve it to be illusionary, psycedelics are hallucinogens; they alter our perception of reality. Could we not say that this is essentially adding a temporary colouring to water in a bowl, it does not change what water (the illusion) is, rather it put the water in another perspective and provides a secondary illusion of reality. So essentially Psilocybin provides an dream-like perception within a dream- to put it in other words.

I have two arguments here:

1) psilocybin and other types of hallucinogens essentially send the brain into death mode- one of the basic chemical changes that is happening is that your cells in your brain aren't getting enough sugar. Our brain acts as a filter that serves to limit out of the perceptions we are capable of perceiving but just wouldnt be able to handle in order to live. Our eyes are like shutters on a lens...when we fail to refocus that lens it lets in all sorts of distortions that might not have normally been noticeable (aura fields, Plasma, EVPs, ghostly images, the phatom leaf of Kirlian photography...these are all energy systems that exist but are not seeable by the human eye... so just what else is out there. In this way we can tap into the collective unconscious.

2) Psilocybin is uniquely different-as are all plant related compounds...I would be very hesitant to disagree that plants have spirits. Shamanic tradition worldwides tells us the power of plants and now modern science is even doing the same (see Intelligence in Nature- by Narby) These plants are fungi are trying to speak to us. Just like animals and plants use interspecies pheremones maybe they also have exopheromones to communicate with other species like humans...It would seem like they have a positive relationship with humans and like helping us. Now other artificial things might just be "coloring" but I think there is a validity to some of it.

Originally said by Fallen Hero > Google on the other hand, is algorithmic in nature, it can do only what the algorithm permits. Google is constrained by parameters and defined by those constraints. Google does not alter the perception of reality, nor does it offer any transendence to another plane of existence nor logic nor intelligence. Google is simply a medium through which one can methodically and mathematically categorize and analyize relationships between abstact concepts and ideas.

The interesting thing about computer languages are that they are a language when spoken, causes things to happen. Our words are merely symbols but not the language of the computers we create. In a way they are more advanced then us...this is why we are afraid of robots and AI. The world is also made up of language and similarly should be able to be controlled by speaking.

Take this quote from Terrence McKenna I posted elsewhere

I think the world is made of language. And in some extremely profound way that is very hard for us to get at. What this encounter with translinguistic matter is, is this place on the psychedelic spectrum where you actually catch the unconscious in the process of using words to make reality. It’s sort of like, you look behind where the stuff is coming in, you say, “Oh my God, so that’s how they do it.” You know, syntax. You know the chief difference between science and magic is that science takes the universe as a given.

Also I will agree with the author of the original document posted that Google has not reached this point yet but it is approaching it.

I sense Google straining at the limits of natural language’s ability to make meaning as they wrestle with multilingual translations and semantic search. Those Googlers who are bending their minds around the meaning of meaning may want to reach under the entire apparatus of natural language (yes, even mathematics) down closer to the machine language of thought, not in binary, but in full spectrum arpeggios of rainbow light. Perhaps this is the realm of organic biophotonic communication: languages of light and color in waves. (See the work of Mae-Wan Ho and Fritz Albert Popp.)

When Google breaks through the natural language barrier and catches a glimpse, at least, of what it’s like to operate cognition entirely outside the veil of natural language, they will truly be Masters of Meaning

And lets not forget that it is not necessarily the math itself but rather who inputs it and is speaking it. Google is the great organizer...

Google is mainlining the archetypal energies of the mycelium and the quest. To the degree that Google groks its own archetypal organizing principles, it can operate more successfully in multiple domains of influence on multiple levels of reality. It can build a new model, a transdimensional model, a correlative system that can sustain the connections and translate technologies and noesis among levels or domains

And here is also a statement made on the Translinguistic thought thread that I think answers this...

we do know that Google exists and that it is some kind of all-knowing and all-creating language center. It is the engine that makes word into Flesh. Type in a search term and you are mostly likely to find interesting results being list in a certain order. This is the ordering of language via our collective unconscious that is happening through the power that is Google. Through Google World can be transfigured into Flesh and true mystery of all Western religions can be revealed.

Originally said by Fallen Hero > I do not think that the author was correct in saying that psycedelics provide a path to knowledge, just as I do not feel that Google is a path to knowledge in it's own self, as a completely isolated entity. It requires a user capable of both language and critical thinking which allows for the parameters of the search to be defined.

And I would disagree here. Psychedelics are sort of the easy way in that anyone can use. No longer do we need to master Zen meditation or perform self-flagellation to achieve visions. Ingest something and instantly talk to God....The user doesn't need to ready but of course that helps...but then again will we ever be ready? If the path to knowledge is the collective unconscious or if it is in the inner workings of our DNA and our brains, psychedelics and Google are a path to both.

Fallen Hero
April 3rd, 2008, 12:39 AM
Ok, now that I had the time to read the whole post:

My first question is about the end of your post (because I don't know enough about psychology or metaphysics to properly respond to most of your post :( ) How do we know, that inducing psilocybin or any other psychedelic creates a connection to a god? This assumes the existence of a supernatural deity- I don't want to take this thread down the god-no god debate line because that is not what the discussion is about, but I don't like to assume, so we will say hypothetically, in a world where there is a god (which needs no proof or disproof as we are to be considered outside observers from the universe) how can we be certain that the chemical reaction of the psychedelics in a human brain causes a connection to god. These are mind altering substances, so could this connection to god perhaps simply be an alteration of reality perception caused by the consumption of the drug?

jlar16
April 4th, 2008, 02:21 AM
Originally said by Fallen Hero:
How do we know, that inducing psilocybin or any other psychedelic creates a connection to a god?

We can't know...but even the Bible accounts stories that psychedelics were used. Especially in the case of Moses. Moses was tripping on Mt. Sinai. Moses and his people ate "mana" and saw lights in the sky when crossing the desert. Now what they saw might not have actually been God but it sure did convince Jewish people pre-jesus.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/04/2179961.htm

Now the reason I think that it creates this connection is because it creates disconnection from the body. I perscribe to the "Mind-at-large" theory. That is that we are capable of perceiving anything that has every happened to anyone at any point in time. There is an "Overmind" to the species if you will that communicates through the collective unconscious. One similiar theory is that these psychedelics allow us to tap into and view and manipulate the submolecular structure of our DNA. This has to do with very slight electromagnetic waves that are generated by our DNA. This could actually be a voice that is trying to speak to us but we are just normally not listen or cannot hear it.
I also think that each of these substances has its own "voice" or spirit or at least plant-based and fungus ones....not engineering chemicals. We are not alienated from nature, we are part of it. And as such their are symbiotic relationships between species. Pheromones and exopheremones allow the evolution and continued success of natural life. The plants are in a sense trying to help us and to communicate us. We somehow have the flight controls in the quest though. Perhaps this quest, this reality, this world is 1 giant organism that is evolving itself...

When people take these psychedelics they act in a sense like a shaman. They ascend the tree of life and creation and tap into that collective unconscious. They see and hear the pure logos and it gives them powerful insights and information. God was invented during times of crisis...when the village was suffering from disease, lack of water or food someone went out into the wilderness suffering on the edge of death and had a near death experience. In that experience that person saw what he or she thought to be God and that voice spoke to them. Hallucinations are not uncommon in these experiences where sugar is denied from the brain and the brain slowly starts to shut down (ask any anesthesiologist- holy shit did I spell that right)..The voice that spoke to that person was right and it gave them good info that saved that person and that person's village. Thus God became real and to be respected...but he could only be reached by putting the body in extreme conditions. This is also why self-flagellation was so popular and still is amongst vision seeking religous individuals of every religion.


This assumes the existence of a supernatural deity
Only that there is something else out there that can't be explained.

in a world where there is a god (which needs no proof or disproof as we are to be considered outside observers from the universe) how can we be certain that the chemical reaction of the psychedelics in a human brain causes a connection to god
We can't be for sure but there are alot of good connections throughout history. From witches to early Greek religious cults to the Egyptians...all the way back to the beginning of human civilization...from cultures in the New World such as the Mayans and Incans, Native Americans, drinkers of Soma from the Rig Veda, Hindus who worshiped the cow.... etc. etc....all of these groups used psychedelics. Cactus, mushrooms, other plants... Their Gods are shown with these sacred drugs and they are even buried with them.
Mind and matter- according to quantum physics, are connected. These chemicals are almost chemically identical to ones that occur naturally in the human brain...eerily so. Our receptors for those chemicals are designed to accept these new chemicals. Maybe it was built up over time (like they say there are nicotine receptors too) maybe it was put there by an extra-terrestrial entity, who knows...BUT the fact that you can take a molecule that has no effect on us and rearrange the position of 1 single atom and make it an active psychedelic proves that there is an interconnection of mind and matter. This is why these chemicals can provide insight into "God" or "The Great Mystery" as the Indians put it.

These are mind altering substances, so could this connection to god perhaps simply be an alteration of reality perception caused by the consumption of the drug?
All the information that we have to operate as a normal human comes through our physical senses. Thus any compound that alters that should be looked at because it tests and questions and brings light to the essence of our humanity. Alteration of reality is one thing but if we are capable of perceiving all of these sensory inputs that our brain normally filters out then maybe we can catch something else. Its more like these chemicals are erecting a giant satellite to the collective unconscious. The only way to truly see is to try yourself. The insight and information given cannot possibly come from inside your own brain. There is a voice there under certain conditions...what and who it is we just don't know.

Fallen Hero
April 5th, 2008, 12:32 AM
Fair enough, I cannot argue on the effects of psychedelics, because I have not ever tried them. I have read accounts where users have stated that they felt like they could understand everything, and that the the meaning of life came to them as they were under the influence, but vanished as they sobered up (this account is from a Morning Glory user on Erowid). I do not know if I could go as far as to believe that plants have spirits, because I don't really accept the concept of spirits right now (or of souls), however, I will agree that there MIGHT be something else out there which is of supernatural order (in case I have not explained this, my conception of supernatural is that it cannot cause effect in the natural world, and thus cannot be tested or proven - and there by is scientifically irrelevant, thus need not be considered in the explaination of occurences in the natural world.), but we cannot know this for certain, and for this reason it is hard for me to accept the idea that natural objects can make connections to a supernatural one (or plane); similar to the commentary about how illusionary objects cannot create bonds to the real world which are not illusionary in nature. Although, a lot of this is making more sense as we discuss it.

jlar16
April 5th, 2008, 03:27 AM
Seeing is believing...

Originally said by Fallen Hero:
my conception of supernatural is that it cannot cause effect in the natural world, and thus cannot be tested or proven - and there by is scientifically irrelevant, thus need not be considered in the explaination of occurences in the natural world.),

First these things are not scientifically irrelevant. Point in case- Biopiracy. U.S. pharmaceutical companies go to indigenous communities and ask them about their traditional medicines. Curare is an example.... and many of these medicines being appropriated are mixtures of different chemicals. Trial and error cannot explain how these medicines are found, there are just too many to account for and it would take too long, and work of mouth/oral tradition is not the best method to pass along knowledge- I believe the shamans when they say that the plants told them. Who is to say that shamanic dreams are less real than reality? So yes, plants and their compounds can effect reality, they have a symbiotic relationship with the human species.

Contrary to popular belief the holders of this knowledge don't always pass down their knowledge. Some of course is but much of the skill is not. Knowledge of these plants only comes after the Shaman spends many months in the jungle learning the plants and getting to know their spirits. This may sound crazy but even scientific minds cannot deny the intelligence of nature. See Jeremy Narby's "Intelligence in Nature." Plants can communicate- just not like humans. Esteemed biologist Anthony Trewavas even speaks of the indescribable ways in which plants can communicate so to say. Plants don't have neurons, but they have a cellular signaling system. They can make decisions and do it extremely quick. Here is something interesting said in an interview between Trewavas and Narby straight out of the book

"Yes, yes, yes," he said. "All kinds of organisms have such abilities, adaptabilities and flexibility. This is true, I believe." He contrasted these abilities to awareness and mind and went on to discuss information processing in biological systems. He wrote the word unconsciousness on the board and said that most information processing in humans occurs at the unconscious level. "So awareness is the small tip of a large mountain. In this sense, all kinds of organisms have a sort of unconscious level of information processing. This ability is very high, higher than we expect."
p. 101 Intelligence in Nature


If slime molds can think why can't advanced fungus with complex chemicals similar to those found in our brains talk. They could be trying to speak to us as McKenna says by using "exopheremones". It could be that these substances have been shaping human history and evolving our brains since bipedalism. Medical studies have proven psilocybin to increase visual acuity- this would make a positive contribution to the gene pool...

And science is not the end-all-be-all my friend, just because something is unexplainable doesn't mean it isn't right. Science textbooks change every year for a reason...facts and theories change and scientists contradict each other. And even now science is only now starting to prove the validity of medicines that have been used my shamans since before we could remember. Quantum physics is constantly causing us to question Newtonian physics, so on and so forth.

Now I am not saying that dreams/hallucinations/what not are "real." I will say that they can be true though. They can effect reality not in the sense we would expect. When a shaman enters a trance s/he ascends to another dimension through the axis mundi. From there s/he speaks to the spirit/spirits and brings back information and knowledge to help his/her village/patient. This is the way they can "effect the natural world" as you say...by giving us tools and information to use.

[/QUOTE]but we cannot know this for certain, and for this reason it is hard for me to accept the idea that natural objects can make connections to a supernatural one (or plane); similar to the commentary about how illusionary objects cannot create bonds to the real world which are not illusionary in nature. Although, a lot of this is making more sense as we discuss it.[/QUOTE]

No one can know for certain. You can know for certain only that you don't know for certain. These substances "break open the head" to new experience and information that one cannot deny. As such they may be a great tool for us. What is illusionary and what is not. I am not sure what you mean by the "making bonds" analogy...? There is one theory however...outlined extensively in a book called "The Cosmic Serpant" that users/shamans can use ESR resonance to tap into the sub-molecular structure of DNA. As such we can mutate and even change our DNA...the very fabric of our existance!. Science has proven that there are little sub-molecular thingys (lol I'm not a scientists) that act as little scissor-like things that can re-arrange DNA. They don't know how it works but this is their theory on how mutations happen. If not change them then perhaps we can actually see the resonance pattern of the DNA and figure out what is ailing someone...then prescribe a medicine.... Look up "biophotons." Our DNA actually emits LIGHT that corresponds to the wavelength of visible light. It has been described as a coherent source of light..."like a laser" .."an impression of holographic depth." Narby'stheory is that shamans "perceive DNA-emitted photons in their visions"...."it ought to be possible to find a link between these photons and consciousness. What is even more crazy is that shamans see DNA (double helix) and mytocondria...etc. etc. These people had detailed drawings of cells and DNA before Western science even existed in their art! Anyway I suggest reading a few books and then make your own decision. The Narby books are certainly an interesting read. Doors of Perception- Aldous Huxley, Food of the Gods- Terrence McKenna...that should be good really. I hope this is all making sense. I enjoy getting to solidify my views through writing and sharing it with others.

Fallen Hero
April 8th, 2008, 04:10 AM
And science is not the end-all-be-all my friend, Agreed.

Now I am not saying that dreams/hallucinations/what not are "real." I will say that they can be true though. They can effect reality not in the sense we would expect. When a shaman enters a trance s/he ascends to another dimension through the axis mundi. From there s/he speaks to the spirit/spirits and brings back information and knowledge to help his/her village/patient. This is the way they can "effect the natural world" as you say...by giving us tools and information to use. This sorta makes sense..


No one can know for certain. You can know for certain only that you don't know for certain.

This sentence is fantastic in it's truthfulness.

What is illusionary and what is not. I am not sure what you mean by the "making bonds" analogy...? There is one theory however...outlined extensively in a book called " You already rebuttled this even if you did not understand what I meant [essentially, that I thought if there was a supernatural plane, that it could not directly influence the natural one]

The Cosmic Serpant" that users/shamans can use ESR resonance to tap into the sub-molecular structure of DNA. As such we can mutate and even change our DNA...the very fabric of our existance!. Science has proven that there are little sub-molecular thingys (lol I'm not a scientists) that act as little scissor-like things that can re-arrange DNA. They don't know how it works but this is their theory on how mutations happen. If not change them then perhaps we can actually see the resonance pattern of the DNA and figure out what is ailing someone...then prescribe a medicine.... Look up "biophotons." Our DNA actually emits LIGHT that corresponds to the wavelength of visible light. It has been described as a coherent source of light..."like a laser" .."an impression of holographic depth." Narby'stheory is that shamans "perceive DNA-emitted photons in their visions"...."it ought to be possible to find a link between these photons and consciousness. What is even more crazy is that shamans see DNA (double helix) and mytocondria...etc. etc. These people had detailed drawings of cells and DNA before Western science even existed in their art! Anyway I suggest reading a few books and then make your own decision. The Narby books are certainly an interesting read. Doors of Perception- Aldous Huxley, Food of the Gods- Terrence McKenna...that should be good really. I hope this is all making sense. I enjoy getting to solidify my views through writing and sharing it with others. I'm glad to learn something new by discussing things on the internet (something that rarely happens for me)


//Sorry, but I'm really busy right now and don't have the time to make you further your arguement (which is what I have been trying to do with the disagreements which likely make no sense since I know nothing about metaphysics)

Useful Tool
April 10th, 2008, 11:52 AM
jlar16, I haven't had a chance to check-up on any of your other quotes, but you did misattribute a quote in Jeremy Narby's book to Anthony Trewavas.

Please read it again. The quote is correctly attributed to Toshiyuki Nakagaki, who repeats it a second time on p. 105, and in the latter instance, uses the word "consciousness" instead of awareness.

jlar16
April 10th, 2008, 06:17 PM
You're right that it was Toshiyuki Nakagaki...sorry about that

i don't think I confused the words awareness and consciousness though

Trewavas is just a well known name is molecular biology and GMO technology. He is much more widely published so I got the names confused...

Either way way is your opinion on the subject?...there is a whole other discussion going on in the Intelligence in Nature thread...

Also welcome to CoG!

Useful Tool
April 11th, 2008, 01:11 AM
Thanks for the welcome. I'll check out the thread. Just to be clear, awareness and consciousness are used synonomously. The real question is, has anyone seen or discussed the film, Night of the Liana?

jlar16
April 11th, 2008, 09:18 PM
have not seen it but would like to
where might I find it?

SonOfGoogle
April 14th, 2008, 07:19 PM
If you are not going to add to this thread, don't post in it. This is a thread in the DEBATE Forum. We want these threads to be ON-TOPIC and to remain banter free. Stay relevant or don't post here.

Thanks,
Fallen Hero.

p.s. Do not respond to this either.