Log in

View Full Version : Harbor Christian Church in Wilmington is on Fire


guccistarr
May 29th, 2008, 01:12 PM
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Tsar Phalanxia
May 29th, 2008, 01:17 PM
Hmm, the fire department said no-one was hurt. =)
http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_9412139

guccistarr
May 29th, 2008, 01:19 PM
Hmm, the fire department said no-one was hurt. =)
http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_9412139

Thank you.

kylemac
May 29th, 2008, 01:31 PM
Yeah

I hope they kill all the fucking murderous aethists that did that to you, Meghan.

I'm so sorry to hear that.

No one got hurt though.

Yet.

Tsar Phalanxia
May 29th, 2008, 03:21 PM
Uhh, whats wrong with atheists? Atheists are no more likely to be baby eaters than Christians, Blacks or Jews.

soccerdevil
May 29th, 2008, 04:15 PM
Uhh, whats wrong with atheists? Atheists are no more likely to be baby eaters than Christians, Blacks or Jews.

Really?

I hate atheism now.

I also hate insurance frauding arsonists who burn their own church down just so they can rebuild it.

I think that is not cool at all. Plus, it fools and hurts people. It also burns them.

It like fries them, sorta. ;)

I don't like gangstas very much either, so.......

Tsar Phalanxia
May 29th, 2008, 04:20 PM
I hate atheism now.


Ahhh! *Runs away and cries in a corner!*

guccistarr
May 29th, 2008, 04:56 PM
Ahhh! *Runs away and cries in a corner!*

Yeah!

Sure enough, they're having a fun-raiser.

I'll try to type better you dweeb.

Dr Goofy Mofo
May 31st, 2008, 12:01 AM
Atheism is not the cause it is iggnorant assholes and nothing more. I do not like to see any prejudices please! Do not judge others based on a small groups actions!

Tsar Phalanxia
May 31st, 2008, 09:13 AM
Atheism should not be forced upon anyone. It is a personal choice. However, secularity should be global.

Against the Grain
May 31st, 2008, 09:49 AM
I hate atheism now.

I hate Christianity now! D< So there!

Well, not really. =P It was fun to say, though.

tatty000
May 31st, 2008, 01:27 PM
Atheism should not be forced upon anyone. It is a personal choice. However, secularity should be global.
I don't see a problem with forcing Atheism on people?

And what level of secularity?

kylemac
May 31st, 2008, 01:51 PM
Atheism is not the cause it is iggnorant assholes and nothing more. I do not like to see any prejudices please! Do not judge others based on a small groups actions!

Atheism should not be forced upon anyone. It is a personal choice. However, secularity should be global.

I hate Christianity now! D< So there!

Well, not really. =P It was fun to say, though.

I don't see a problem with forcing Atheism on people?

And what level of secularity?

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm160/ispeak4thetrees/freshener_001.gif


Are you a gangbanger? (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gangbanger)

Tsar Phalanxia
May 31st, 2008, 03:07 PM
I don't see a problem with forcing Atheism on people?

And what level of secularity?

Total secularity, the total separation of government from Religion. And why do you not have a problem with atheism being forced upon people?

soccerdevil
May 31st, 2008, 05:44 PM
Ok, I'm going to the police now about this whole monstrosity, I hope they catch the criminal who did it!

I'm convinced it was arson, no matter what the media say.

I know it was planned.

Why else would you have phished myspace bulletins announcing it, if you didn't want me to know?

rzm61
May 31st, 2008, 05:50 PM
Ok, I'm going to the police now about this whole monstrosity, I hope they catch the criminal who did it!

I'm convinced it was arson, no matter what the media say.

I know it was planned.

Why else would you have phished myspace bulletins announcing it, if you didn't want me to know?

Yeah SS,
they are out to get you.

I'm out to get you.
Watch out. I'm right behind you!

:icon_rolleyes:



........also, be convinced on what you want to be. However you should look at the facts first before jumping the gun and coming up with your half-baked assumptions.

tatty000
June 1st, 2008, 07:13 AM
Total secularity, the total separation of government from Religion. And why do you not have a problem with atheism being forced upon people?
The thing about a total separation is that it can then in turn go against religion. Where all religious groups are confined into a small community, just look at China (I know, a tad extreme considering it's communism).

I don't have a problem with people forcing a religion/faith/belief structure upon people because each one of them is about building the converts up. If I was to have a problem with others, I'd also have to keep my personal faith, personal.

soccerdevil
June 1st, 2008, 08:23 AM
The Jessica "Angel" Smith Gospel Concert is still canceled.

guccistarr
June 1st, 2008, 08:31 AM
The Jessica "Angel" Smith Gospel Concert is still canceled.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm160/ispeak4thetrees/Jimmy_Smith.jpg

WHY?

Tsar Phalanxia
June 1st, 2008, 12:05 PM
The thing about a total separation is that it can then in turn go against religion. Where all religious groups are confined into a small community, just look at China (I know, a tad extreme considering it's communism).


The idea behind total separation is that the government doesn't interfere with religion. If a government then does become de facto atheist, then it is no long secular.

rzm61
June 1st, 2008, 03:08 PM
The Jessica "Angel" Smith Gospel Concert is still canceled.

And it seems that nobody gives two shits.

Dr Goofy Mofo
June 1st, 2008, 03:41 PM
I'd also have to keep my personal faith, personal.

I think people should do this!

guccistarr
June 1st, 2008, 04:55 PM
Hmm, the fire department said no-one was hurt. =)
http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_9412139

Atheism is not the cause it is iggnorant assholes and nothing more. I do not like to see any prejudices please! Do not judge others based on a small groups actions!

I hate Christianity now! D< So there!

Well, not really. =P It was fun to say, though.

I don't see a problem with forcing Atheism on people?

And what level of secularity?

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm160/ispeak4thetrees/freshener_001.gif


Are you a gangbanger? (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gangbanger)

Yeah SS,
they are out to get you.

I'm out to get you.
Watch out. I'm right behind you!

:icon_rolleyes:



........also, be convinced on what you want to be. However you should look at the facts first before jumping the gun and coming up with your half-baked assumptions.

And it seems that nobody gives two shits.

I think people should do this!

It's kinda easy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dC4dURfuIXM).

But,,,,,,I like it.

GeoffBoulton
June 8th, 2008, 09:05 AM
Atheism should not be forced upon anyone. It is a personal choice. However, secularity should be global.

Atheism is NEVER forced upon anybody, we are all atheists at birth. It is only after a long and drawn-out process of indoctrination following birth that anyone becomes Christian, Muslim, etc.

That is not to say that people can't wonder at the universe, and its complexity and beauty, but without organised religion the words God and atheism would be non-words, without meaning, and probably wouldn't even exist.

It is ALWAYS religion that is 'forced' upon people.

-۞-
June 8th, 2008, 12:50 PM
Geoff,

I think people see Atheist Communist Regimes like China and former Russia as forcing Atheism on people.

It is an interesting question about how or even if you can force people to believe things.
I would broadly say you can persaude people which isn't force or force them to feign belief but can't force them to actually believe.

However I can see that many theists choose to believe in God and so begin to actually fiercely believe in God. I can't do that to myself because real belief for me doesn't work like that and can't be a matter of choice it is a set of conclusions impelled by the facts.
So maybe the process of belief isn't the same for everyone.

Tsar Phalanxia
June 8th, 2008, 12:52 PM
Well said. Although I support every effort made to prove the non-existence of God, I think forcing atheism on people after they have been indoctrinated makes us no better than theocrats though =/

GeoffBoulton
June 8th, 2008, 02:07 PM
Geoff,

I think people see Atheist Communist Regimes like China and former Russia as forcing Atheism on people.

It is an interesting question about how or even if you can force people to believe things.
I would broadly say you can persaude people which isn't force or force them to feign belief but can't force them to actually believe.

However I can see that many theists choose to believe in God and so begin to actually fiercely believe in God. I can't do that to myself because real belief for me doesn't work like that and can't be a matter of choice it is a set of conclusions impelled by the facts.
So maybe the process of belief isn't the same for everyone.

Whatever the rights or wrongs of Communist regimes, preventing people from taking up new beliefs is NOT the same thing as forcing disbelief. We are all born non-believers to whom the question of atheism v theism is no more relevent than fairyism v afairyism. Atheism is not something that is 'forced' upon people it is how we are born.

The reason I put the word 'forced' into quotes is that the indoctrination process that precedes most people's belief is not force in the strictest physical sense but rather coercion, the use of threats to impose your will or beliefs on another person. Surely you don't doubt that the eternity of damnation threatened by many religions as the penalty for disbelief isn't using force?

Of course there are those who 'find' religion later in life although, once again, the 'choice' of which religion to follow is normally an arbitrary one based upon the predominant peer pressures within the community in which they live or the particular denomination of the 'preacher' who managed to 'get to them' first.

People do not find religion on their own, unless you consider wonderment at the world around us as a religion, they are 'forced, coerced, guided, educated or whichever 'persuasional' tag you wish to apply' by the constant array of media generated by the organised religions. An array of media which, almost without exception, carries the message, "Believe this or you will suffer".

sudikics
June 8th, 2008, 02:39 PM
I like thinking of atheism as the most basic mindset, and all religion covers it over. Therefore, you don't force atheism on someone, you tear religion off of them. :D

thermo
June 8th, 2008, 10:37 PM
I dislike the thought of any establishment of religion on fire personally. That is the foremost thought on my mind.
I have no particular affinity for any religion or atheism however, as by nature, I'm a scientist.

I tend to concur that at birth, we are a blank slate. Neither religion or atheism is present. To be an atheist, one must genuinely believe that there is no deity or higher power. Religious people genuinely believe there is.
It becomes a question of environment. A person by themself (without any indoctrination at all), probably wouldn't even question such things.
Just as religion requires indoctrination, so does atheism in a sense. It's a twisted cycle, and one can't disagree, or disbelieve in something that they've never heard of. It's environmental really, based on the people, and experiences that shaped the person that either believe or disbelieve.

Religion has it's own coercions though, as has been stated. "Believe or go to Hell/purgatory/be reincarnated as a dung beetle/whatever" is the basic tenant of many, if not all major religions. It is a form of psychological forcing of the person to accept what the person doing the forcing is 'selling'. The punishment may or may not be imaginary, and may or may not even happen in this lifetime, but it is a threat of punishment or repercussion none the less.
It will sway people who don't have the mental forethought to question "But why? What does this 'Creator' have to gain from sending me to Hell? Does this make sense logically?"

Personally, I believe in God, I disbelieve in religion.
Just my two cents.

-۞-
June 9th, 2008, 08:45 PM
Whatever the rights or wrongs of Communist regimes, preventing people from taking up new beliefs is NOT the same thing as forcing disbelief. ...

Geoff I think we agree. I was only being the devils advocate (NB: to theists - that is a metaphor the devil is no more shown to exist than God).
People argue that various people force others to believe things over time.
However I blame the parents for softening their kids up to believe stuff.

You shouldn't believe things unless you can't believe anything else.
Belief is an internal force whereby you hold yourself a fool unless you accept its conclusions.
You believe because you must even when you don't want to - not because you want to.
Believing because you want to is a weak substitute for proper belief that only people who haven't experienced the real kind could ever be taken in by.

GeoffBoulton
June 9th, 2008, 11:02 PM
Geoff I think we agree. I was only being the devils advocate

Point taken. Guess I'm just getting a bit sensitive to constantly hearing the Christian perpetrated myth that disbelief = belief and that if I hadn't been indoctrinated with this belief I would be a 'believer'. See what I mean? It's enough to do in the head of even the sanest person! ;)

tatty000
June 10th, 2008, 01:53 AM
^
Disbelief is a belief that nothing exists. It's hard to not believe, Geoff.

Oh, nice to see someone quiet unleash his wrath back on the board!

The idea behind total separation is that the government doesn't interfere with religion. If a government then does become de facto atheist, then it is no long secular.
But it's an impossible idea. Unless there is no religion at all and all Holy texts are burnt, there will always be an influence to one side. Not to mention the personal beliefs of our politicians...

Oh, and we're not born Atheists, we're born Agnostics. I've heard many kids ask who made the world and come up with numerous complex, yet childish, answers.

GeoffBoulton
June 10th, 2008, 07:01 AM
^
Disbelief is a belief that nothing exists. It's hard to not believe, Geoff.

Oh, nice to see someone quiet unleash his wrath back on the board!


But it's an impossible idea. Unless there is no religion at all and all Holy texts are burnt, there will always be an influence to one side. Not to mention the personal beliefs of our politicians...

Oh, and we're not born Atheists, we're born Agnostics. I've heard many kids ask who made the world and come up with numerous complex, yet childish, answers.

See, there you go again. Disbelief is an ABSENCE of belief. Belief is also an absolute, either you believe or you don't. Even if you claim you don't know you still don't believe. If you only believe some of the facts of a particular theory you still only believe those particular facts and not the theory as a whole. You can't partly believe in God, you can only believe that he does exist or he doesn't, 'might exist', the agnostic position, is still NOT believing.

You were dead right on the last paragraph though, there are numerous complex, yet childish, answers to the question of who made the world.

The basic fault with this line of reasoning is that the initial question is wrong in asking 'who' and not 'what' made the world. It automatically assumes a 'person' is responsible and in doing so automatically discounts all other possible 'non-personified' explanations no matter how logical nor how well they fit the facts and what we see and can verify around us.

Nice to see you still around tatty, even if we don't very often see eye-to-eye ;)

tatty000
June 10th, 2008, 07:54 AM
Since your absence, I must warn, the amount of spam and useless topics has quadrupled.

We presume a who made the world as everything that can be created in a current time frame is a persons work.

See, there you go again. Disbelief is an ABSENCE of belief. Belief is also an absolute, either you believe or you don't. Even if you claim you don't know you still don't believe. If you only believe some of the facts of a particular theory you still only believe those particular facts and not the theory as a whole. You can't partly believe in God, you can only believe that he does exist or he doesn't, 'might exist', the agnostic position, is still NOT believing.
Are there days you like to think some sort of God and/or and afterlife exists?

GeoffBoulton
June 10th, 2008, 08:27 AM
Since your absence, I must warn, the amount of spam and useless topics has quadrupled.

We presume a who made the world as everything that can be created in a current time frame is a persons work.

Are there days you like to think some sort of God and/or and afterlife exists?

Yes, I noticed the increase in spam and 'useless' topics. Although 'useless' is subjective so I guess I shouldn't criticise just because the subjects aren't those that I would bother myself with. ;)

That's exactly the point I'm making, by automatically assuming a 'who' you automatically cut off all other, possibly productive, pathways of investigation. We can sit and watch a lava flow solidify into rock but there isn't anybody 'making' that new rock for instance.

Wishing that something were true doesn't mean that it is true any more than wishing there were no war, poverty, famine, illness, etc. would make those things disappear. It is a pointless question.

As for living for all eternity, few have actually thought about what that would mean. You would have time to do everything it is ever possible to do and invent everything it is possible to invent an infinite number of times. That in itself would seem more like an eternity in boredom hell rather than an eternity in heaven. The only way to avoid the boredom would be to wipe memory clean and start again every so often. I'm not sure if I would want to live forever in an eternal Groundhog Day. ;)

sudikics
June 10th, 2008, 01:14 PM
To summarize what I understand form the above:

Lack of a belief of something is different than belief in a lack of something.

GeoffBoulton
June 10th, 2008, 08:08 PM
To summarize what I understand form the above:

Lack of a belief of something is different than belief in a lack of something.

The default position is that we do not believe anything until we are presented with evidence to the contrary. This default position is not belief it is absence of belief.

Lack/absence of belief in the Christian God includes, I don't know, I don't care, Where's the evidence?, which God?, God who?, in fact every viewpoint and position EXCEPT I believe in God.

This is quite clearly different to "I believe, as a matter of faith, that the Christian God doesn't exist". This is the position Christians want to convince people is the position of atheists.

Christians are, successfully, trying to use semantics to show that 'atheists believe', and are therefore subject to the same illogical bias that they are in their 'belief'. i.e. they're a bunch of crazies who are mad to 'believe' in no God.

This is exactly the same sort of semantic wordplay that has seen them degrade the true definition of a scientific 'theory' into a someone just guessed 'theory' as the word is often used in everyday language.

GeoffBoulton
June 11th, 2008, 08:53 AM
Another reason Christians feel it is important to show atheists as 'believing there isn't a god' is to show that atheists have actively 'chosen' to take this viewpoint rather than that they are passively not moving from the default (God given ;)) position of disbelief.

This, what would seem on the face of it, minor change in interpretation means that anyone who doesn't belong to the 'I believe in the Christian God' club can be 'demonised' as someone who has made an active 'choice' to reject the Christian God.

It allows such disparate groups as Muslims, agnostics and atheists to be grouped together as a single group to be vilified and treated as the common enemy.

-۞-
June 12th, 2008, 09:25 PM
Another reason Christians feel it is important to show atheists as 'believing there isn't a god' is to show that atheists have actively 'chosen' to take this viewpoint

An excellent and important point.
The xians want to drag us down to their level. :icon_cry: