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Dolores
April 16th, 2009, 12:44 AM
When my son was born, his father and I chose not to have him circumcised. Initially his father wanted him to be circumcised, using the argument "I don't want him to look at me and wonder why his is different", but I rebutted that with the simple question; when a child looks at a parent, are there not many physical differences? Hair, size, scars, age? What makes a foreskin special?

My feeling was simply that there are no known health benefits, all known correlations with disease have other strongly influencing factors, and it seems unethical to make an irreversible, completely optional choice for an infant - especially one that carries a risk of harm - when there are no mitigating factors like illness or even long-term social acceptance at play. Furthermore, not making the decision for him left the choice for him to make in the future, should he so choose.

What are your thoughts on circumcision?

rzm61
April 16th, 2009, 12:49 AM
I wish I was consulted beforehand.


Also, the only downfall about it is that you gotta be even more thorough on cleaning.

Dr Goofy Mofo
April 16th, 2009, 01:10 AM
Yea the extra cleaning and I heard somewhere an uncircumcised penis is an inch smaller on average but that could be wrong.

Dolores
April 16th, 2009, 01:12 AM
Yea the extra cleaning and I heard somewhere an uncircumcised penis is an inch smaller on average but that could be wrong.

You should probably abandon the habit of believing things that you "heard somewhere".

Dr Goofy Mofo
April 16th, 2009, 01:18 AM
Even if it spoke to me in a song?

Granted I think the only difference is the extra cleaning but guys spend so much cleaning down there, a little extra won't hurt. I would rather be the way I am, but given a choice, I would not pay to have it cut off if I was Uncircumcised.

followerOfGoogle
April 16th, 2009, 01:42 AM
Only bad this with not circumcising is that if he does choose to do it later in life it is supposed to hurt a hell of a lot more.

fomenter
April 16th, 2009, 01:50 AM
Yea the extra cleaning and I heard somewhere an uncircumcised penis is an inch smaller on average but that could be wrong.
if it is a statistically insignificant its not racist...

Dr Goofy Mofo
April 16th, 2009, 01:56 AM
hahaha Fomenter are you saying that uncircumcised people are different races the circumcised people?

Aaryk
April 16th, 2009, 02:08 AM
Dolores,
When my son was born, I had to go through the same argument only backwards, his mother insisted on circumcision so he would look just like me and wouldn't feel different from the other kids. I told her that doing something to fit in is a bullshit reason to do anything and he would end up feeling better about himself as long as we talked to him about it.

Really--and it may be weird to think of your unborn son this way--I just made the choice for him to remain natural because everything I read said that sex was better for him and for her if the male partner was uncircumcised. Also, I didn't like all the religious baggage that had followed the concept of circumcision around.

It's barbaric and unnecessary. How hard is it, really, to get a twelve year old kid to spend double the time cleaning himself anyway?

sudikics
April 16th, 2009, 02:51 AM
Isn't it technically genital mutilation?

Dolores
April 16th, 2009, 03:00 AM
hahaha Fomenter are you saying that uncircumcised people are different races the circumcised people?

The funny thing about that is that there actually are large statistical correlations between race and circumcision. :icon_lol:

Dolores
April 16th, 2009, 03:03 AM
Dolores,
When my son was born, I had to go through the same argument only backwards, his mother insisted on circumcision so he would look just like me and wouldn't feel different from the other kids. I told her that doing something to fit in is a bullshit reason to do anything and he would end up feeling better about himself as long as we talked to him about it.

Really--and it may be weird to think of your unborn son this way--I just made the choice for him to remain natural because everything I read said that sex was better for him and for her if the male partner was uncircumcised. Also, I didn't like all the religious baggage that had followed the concept of circumcision around.

It's barbaric and unnecessary. How hard is it, really, to get a twelve year old kid to spend double the time cleaning himself anyway?

That was actually a large factor for me, too... I want my children to have the best lives possible as adults, including their sex lives.

And yeah, it's not exactly hard to get a 12-year-old (or a boy child of ANY age) to spend extra time paying attention to his penis! :icon_lol:

Dr Goofy Mofo
April 16th, 2009, 03:18 AM
The funny thing about that is that there actually are large statistical correlations between race and circumcision. :icon_lol:

Interesting. I know you did not mean it this way but I am going to take it as Uncircumcised people are a different race so that I may make fun and ridicule my best friend for and hour or so.

Dolores
April 16th, 2009, 03:24 AM
Not only did I not mean it that way, but it's impossible to read that way if you're fully literate

just sayin'

Dr Goofy Mofo
April 16th, 2009, 03:28 AM
It is called I read what I want to! It is fun I am sure you have seen others on this forum do it!

Dolores
April 16th, 2009, 03:38 AM
It is called I read what I want to! It is fun I am sure you have seen others on this forum do it!


Ohhh yeah, boy howdy have I! :icon_lol:

Al Farabi
April 16th, 2009, 04:25 AM
Ohhh yeah, boy howdy have I! :icon_lol:

Trueeeeee say.

Sister Faith
April 16th, 2009, 04:55 AM
My feeling was simply that there are no known health benefits,
So, you based a major decision concerning your children's present and future health on a feeling? Would you deny your daughter the HPV vaccine because you felt it may make her promiscuous? If you had done some actual research, you wouldn't have made such a ridiculous statement as the bolded part above.

Circumcision
http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/03/25/circumcision-herpes-hpv.html

"For most parents, the default should be circumcision," said Golden. "Obviously, these are complex decisions, and parents have to do what they think is right for their children, but there are significant health benefits."

"The World Health Organization and the United Nations' program on HIV/AIDS have promoted circumcision since 2007 for reducing the risk of AIDS in areas where heterosexual transmission is high."

all known correlations with disease have other strongly influencing factors, citation needed Dr. Doh :icon_rolleyes:

especially one that carries a risk of harmWhat harm (http://children.webmd.com/tc/circumcision-risks)? And how does it compare to the harm that can be caused by not having it done (http://www.male-initiation.net/statistics.html)?
Talk to any Urologist and ask them how many emergency circumcisions they have to perform on men of all ages on a daily basis because of common conditions that could have been avoided if they had been circumcised. Also, circumcisions on older children and adults carry far more risk of complications than when it's done at birth.

Furthermore, not making the decision for him left the choice for him to make in the future, should he so choose.Not making a choice is making a choice. By choosing not to circumcise you have, never-the-less, made a choice for him.

sailor
April 16th, 2009, 06:24 AM
Isn't it technically genital mutilation?

haha - uh, i don't think that the intention is exactly the same thing, sci.

in one you do it for health or other cultural standards, whereas in female genital mutilation i believe it is cutting away the clitoris and sewing up the vag so that it's tighter and is i believe mainly for control of women's sexuality by her husband, they cannot self pleasure with the clit that way because it is gone...but i did not look either up, just from my former knowledge of the two things.

i had a bf who was french who wasn't circumsized. he was a little smaller than most, but didn't really matter, he won me over larger guys who were overly insecure and not as good in bed, actually.

it's more the motion, people, and foreplay, kissing, licking, sucking, touching is better...also...what about emotion, that is the best part of the sex for me. anyone with dreamy eyes and a cute face has got it way up over a ridiculous shlong-banger any old day. but if they had both, i wouldn't mind it. the uncircumsized part made no difference what-so-ever in the sex, and i had multiple orgasms with him, whereas his 'larger' friend was not as foreplay savvy and didn't care about the motion and therefore got played.

just saying.

...didn't matter.

Tsar Phalanxia
April 16th, 2009, 12:43 PM
Nobody should ever do something like that to one of their kids without their permission.

Btw, have you all heard about female circumcision?

rzm61
April 16th, 2009, 12:44 PM
Nobody should ever do something like that to one of their kids without their permission.



Kinda like baptism, in my opinion.

woody23
April 16th, 2009, 02:44 PM
First off I'm neutral on the subject.

I would like to say "Thank you" to Sister Faith for her posting though. It was quite enlightening. I followed the links and read them twice each. I found the information very useful and if, I do mean if, I have another child, would be helpful in me making the decision.

My second born had complications due to his circumcision but they were easily fixed and he's healthy and happy now.

As far as the 'sex feeling better' goes...I dunno. I'm not arguing whether or not it's a fact, but, rather, whether or not it would make a difference to the child. It's like saying the man that dies a virgin is missing out. He doesn't really know.

Now, for the 'protection against HIV' and other STD's. That's great and all, but, what about teaching your son to wear a condom? I know, I know, we all hate them. I'm the last one to judge in that department because I certainly dislike them...and avoid them if possible, but I'm sure as hell going to teach my kids that they are best.

I just can't see STD protection as a reason for circumcision. It seems a bit silly of an argument.

That's my input. Thanks!

rzm61
April 16th, 2009, 09:26 PM
All I have to say is that women should have no say in the matter.

The child's father should be the one to decide if he wants his son circumcised, because the mother doesn't know what it's like to have a penis.

Well then the same can be said for men and abortion. They have no say over a womans body cause they don't know what it's like having a vagina and supporting a living thing that's growing and developing inside them.

Aaryk
April 16th, 2009, 09:33 PM
Well then the same can be said for men and abortion. They have no say over a womans body cause they don't know what it's like having a vagina and supporting a living thing that's growing and developing inside them.

Now that's something I can back fully! Sort of...

When my girl got pregnant, I wanted to suggest the possibility of an abortion, but she made me feel too guilty about my opinion on the matter, so I never got to say my piece, but when he was actually born, she felt the need to throw her opinion in deep every time the circumcision conversation came up.

I'm okay with the girl talking to me about the circumcision thing and letting me know her concerns as long as I get the final decision, but I should get to share my opinion on the abortion thing even if the final say either way isn't mine. (All of this only applies to my own seed/child though. A man/woman should have NO say if the offspring isn't his/her own.)

Dolores
April 16th, 2009, 09:34 PM
All I have to say is that women should have no say in the matter.

The child's father should be the one to decide if he wants his son circumcised, because the mother doesn't know what it's like to have a penis.

What if she's a single mother?

Or, what if she has a strong opinion, so she provides all the scientific articles and arguments against to the father, so that he can consider them?

rzm61
April 16th, 2009, 09:39 PM
I still think you should consult the kid before doing what you want. After all it's his penis, not yours.

fomenter
April 16th, 2009, 09:40 PM
why does nobody even consider a partial?

"Partial circumcision is a common procedure that's favored by many men as a happy medium. The removal of just the contractile tip allows the foreskin to retract upon erection, but still retain its protective quality as a natural shield for the head of the flaccid penis.

The risks you run in undergoing a partial circumcision are largely the same as those that accompany a full one: a minute to moderate amount of bleeding, infection of the circumcision site or an infection of the urethral opening. Another long-term difficulty could arise, however, if the partial circumcision proves to be an insufficient one, leaving a bit of foreskin that is a nuisance during intercourse. In the hands of a skilled surgeon, however, this outcome is a rare one."

Loki
April 16th, 2009, 09:46 PM
I'm uncircumcised as are most Brits.

Some studies suggest that circumcision reduces the transmission of HPV - Human Papilloma Virus. The virus that is implicated in cervical cancer.

The reasoning is that the virus prefers a nice, moist area in order to penetrate the skin. There is some evidence for this. (I'll look for it if you're that bothered)

I say wash it! It's really not that difficult. We have things like showers and soap and many magical unguents - but soap is paramount.
And why not try using a condom when you're screwing someone you don't know?

Dolores
April 16th, 2009, 09:49 PM
Simple hygiene and condom use are the easy solutions for almost every "problem" that rises from leaving the penis intact, and those are both things that circumcised men should ALSO BE DOING ANYWAY.

yetiyanker
April 16th, 2009, 09:51 PM
There is a men's group for reclaiming your foreskin. It was on an HBO episode of real sex. Men were using weights and other devices to stretch (or regrow?) their foreskins. Does it work? I don't know.

As for sex being better or worse with or with out one? I have to say it's your partners skills that matter, I mean a big cock is a turn on but I haven't found foreskin to make any difference when it comes to Pleasure.

STD prevention requires condoms not circumcision!!!

the musings of a perverted yeti,
yy

Loki
April 16th, 2009, 09:52 PM
Can't argue with that Dolores

GodofGoogle
April 17th, 2009, 02:16 AM
I'm uncircumcised as are most Brits.

Some studies suggest that circumcision reduces the transmission of HPV - Human Papilloma Virus. The virus that is implicated in cervical cancer.

The reasoning is that the virus prefers a nice, moist area in order to penetrate the skin. There is some evidence for this. (I'll look for it if you're that bothered)

I say wash it! It's really not that difficult. We have things like showers and soap and many magical unguents - but soap is paramount.
And why not try using a condom when you're screwing someone you don't know?


I say it's mine and I will wash it as often and as fast as I want to.