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View Full Version : Religion is a gamble


Will.
April 18th, 2009, 04:43 PM
Ok before I get ranted to Abba hell, here me out.
In many different religions, the supreme power, deity(s), are described as jealous, vengeful beings. Now, in all aspects of the unknown after death, you have to wonder, is my religion the correct one? Or are the God(s)(esses), going to be uber pissed that you worship incorrectly. Or will they be happy, that you take time out of your day, to thank someone for the things you have?
Which raises questions, does a being that is so supreme in power, so pitiful, that it rely' on the worship as its contact to people? Or, is it so gratuitous that its just as happy that people acknowledge the religious facts, that people didn't evolve from monkeys.... If there are god(s)(esses) do you really believe they care? Or do you believe that everyone is essential for the clockwork of life to progress. Regression is a nasty thing, especially when a belief as strong and blind as religion is involved, I don't mean to insult but blind faith in the eyes of many religions is good faith. So of all the different secs of Religion, and belief systems, are you 100% sure yours is correct?


List of Faiths (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions)

Tsar Phalanxia
April 18th, 2009, 05:09 PM
This is exactly why Pascal's wager fails.

Yiuel
April 19th, 2009, 05:30 AM
I concur with Tsar.

I'd also add that philosophy itself was given birth in the same spirit : so many explanations about the world, and yet, who's right?

So basically, you can never be sure. On whatever side. You pick one, you pray it's the right one, and you live on. I have chosen mine. Tsar has chosen hers. Here we are, all making the same wager :)

Tsar Phalanxia
April 19th, 2009, 03:23 PM
HER'S?

rmw
April 19th, 2009, 03:42 PM
Pascal's wager doesn't take into account that religion is cultural, and so while one might believe "just in case" doesn't necessarily mean they'll believe in the Christian version of God, or its afterlife.

And apparently Tsar has taken rzm's place as the forum's resident pretty little girl. Congrat Tsar, I'm sure this is a big honor for you. :icon_razz:

Tsar Phalanxia
April 19th, 2009, 04:02 PM
Godommot.

Yiuel
April 19th, 2009, 05:04 PM
Oh gods, why do people have so weird lifes. Have you been to a girl-school in Bavaria recently? Oh well... My life is full of misunderstandings :P

Tsar Phalanxia
April 19th, 2009, 07:23 PM
*Pulls collar and makes appropriate noise*

Al Farabi
April 20th, 2009, 02:08 AM
I'd also add that philosophy itself was given birth in the same spirit : so many explanations about the world, and yet, who's right?

Disagree. Everybody knows the ancients were wrong. Same with medieval people. Philosophy narrows itself down through debate and logical disproof.

Will.
April 20th, 2009, 02:19 AM
Disagree. Everybody knows the ancients were wrong. Same with medieval people. Philosophy narrows itself down through debate and logical disproof.

Philosophy, disproof... Same sentence.... :icon_lol:

Al Farabi
April 20th, 2009, 02:24 AM
Philosophy, disproof... Same sentence.... :icon_lol:

what? :\

Will.
April 20th, 2009, 07:08 AM
:icon_lol: I don't know whats funnier, the sentence or why you don't see why I'm laughing...... Philosophy..... Disproof.....

Al Farabi
April 21st, 2009, 07:15 AM
:icon_lol: I don't know whats funnier, the sentence or why you don't see why I'm laughing...... Philosophy..... Disproof.....

Enlighten me?

woody23
April 21st, 2009, 08:12 PM
So of all the different secs of Religion, and belief systems, are you 100% sure yours is correct?

I'm not sure 100% that my belief system is correct. I believe in God in a different way anyone I've ever met and discussed the subject with.

Ultimately, for me, it comes down to this: If God isn't what I believe him to be (or more importanly, if God is who everyone else claims he is - jealous, vengeful and petty) then I don't want to hang out with him / believe in him / care about him / have him care about me.

I've accepted that I may go to hell for that if the Mormons/Catholics/blehs are right, and I've accepted that I'm happier with that. If God is the way most religions paint him, it's an ugly picture and to me, seems more devilistic than 'Satan', whom I, oddly enough, do not believe in.

Aaryk
April 21st, 2009, 09:39 PM
So of all the different secs of Religion, and belief systems, are you 100% sure yours is correct?

I'm about as damned sure as can be. I generally go by the belief Marcus Aurelius had:

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."

sam the moderately wize
April 22nd, 2009, 11:04 AM
This is exactly why Pascal's wager fails.

Not really. You still have more chance of heaven if you pick a god than if you have no god at all.

sudikics
April 22nd, 2009, 05:50 PM
Not really. You still have more chance of heaven if you pick a god than if you have no god at all.
Except you'll have a lot more time to, you know, help people. And I wouldn't want to go to a Heaven where the god judged you based on faith and not on your mortal actions.

Will.
April 23rd, 2009, 12:33 PM
Given the facts, what if after you die, your standing at the pearly gates just to find out. "Oh shit, I was wrong..."

Dr Goofy Mofo
April 23rd, 2009, 07:43 PM
I can live with that because then I would be like God.... Your a dick where be the hells?

Will.
April 25th, 2009, 12:11 AM
Well, then I will just assunme the first thing priests do when they become priests is take a big ole hit of crack, because thats the only reason I think they
are still getting into heaven after the many choir boys of, musty past, and of bleak, rocky future.

djura
April 25th, 2009, 11:28 AM
it's a religious system design that plain sucks. Any system that relies only on superior judgment of a higher being is wary likely to brake down. Hell, half the priests don't believe heaven and hell even as metaphors, and only try to implement petty little selfish interest of their own. And even if a priest turns out to be a sick fuck, church rarely condemns them. In most cases church only protects them, and tries to hide the truth from the public.
Imagine going into heaven, with all those sick, twisted bastards that ware offered salvation for a price, or free of charge even. No fucking thanks, I'd rather fry in hell.

Tsar Phalanxia
April 25th, 2009, 06:09 PM
At least with Hell, you'd be able to beat the shit out of sick fuckers who happened to not choose the right religion.

Dayve
April 25th, 2009, 11:32 PM
I don't think it is a gamble to be honest, because i don't think any religion that exists holds any truth whatsoever. Here's the way i see it: IF there was a god, he would not put 5,000+ different religions on earth, all of them having just as little proof of their credibility as the next, and then punish EVERYBODY who didn't pick the one that was real. That's exactly the same as me approaching somebody in the street, telling them to pick one of 5,000 pieces of folded paper out of a bucket, and then killing them if they don't pick the one that says "Life", even though 4,999 of them say "Death".

That's entirely unfair and makes no sense. All religion makes it up as they go along. Islam tells its followers that it's fine to bury a 13-year old girl up to her neck and throw stones at her until she dies. Islam tells us this because Mohammed told his followers that god told him, but nobody except for Mohammed actually witnessed this, so chances are, (good chances at that) that Mohammed had his vision of how the world should be, where 13-year old girls are stoned to death for being raped, and used peoples' superstition to acheive his vision, and lets face it, it's not beyond man (or woman) to lie and manipulate to get what they want, you can turn on your TV and see any politician from any nation on earth doing it every single time he or she opens his or her mouth.

It's the same with Christianity. There are hundreds of different versions of Christianity so I'll use the earliest example of it, which is basically the evil twin brother of the already evil Islam. That earliest version of Christianity had a certain passage in the bible about bringing your disobedient children to the outside wall of your city and stoning them to death. It had a passage about conquering some city of infidels, killing the men and male children, cutting unborn babies from the stomachs of pregnant women, and taking young women and girls home as your slaves.

Again, a man had a vision of his perfect world, he manipulated people using their superstitions to acheive his vision of a perfect world.

This is why you can't live your life with religious guidance, because god is not guiding you, every word you read came from a MAN who SAID what he's telling you CAME from god...

It's like me telling you i saw a unicorn today, then you ask where and i say "well, i didn't see it ACTUALLY, a friend saw it. Well, not him, but his brother. Well, not his brother, his brother's friend Jeff's sister's step-fathers daughter from a previous marriage saw it, BUT SHE TOLD ME SHE SAW IT SO IT'S DEFINITELY TRUE!"

I can go on all night i really can, but the bottom line is... unless there is proof of something, and logic and reason can be applied to explain and support it, forget about it, go live your life. :D