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Clark Nova
May 18th, 2009, 01:45 PM
So there is now a flicker of life in the forum, and maybe... Just maybe, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

In these uncertain times I've been thinking about the kind of CoG that I would like to see.
The kind of discussion topics that were made yesterday genuinely interest me and I would like to see more of the like. Now I have always been of the opinion that topics discussing forums are about as useful as a Russian matryoska doll, that is to say not very useful at all but fun for a little while.

I grow weary of topics discussing moderators, in fact I would like it to reach the point that we do not need to even think about the moderators again.
I also grow weary of dull topics discussing posters. Letís be honest here. Darkuro was never interesting and has had too much attention sent his way, I know I was an offender on this but I have now placed him on ignore for the time being and the quality of my forum going experience has greatly improved. This will hopefully be the last time I have to discuss his existence.

I wouldn't make this thread if I didn't genuinely want to see an end to these troubles and I didn't think it was necessary.
Tensions are still high and some of the offending moderators are still taking a lot of heat. I still believe that any problems created by them were just a case of inexperience or ham handedness and that in time they could improve.

But if someone does not act now in establishing a dialog I think that problems could erupt again at any moment.

This will probably alarm some people but I can assure you that my intentions are honourable:
What: I wish to present myself as a candidate for a minister of the forum.
Why: I think I can act as a fair arbitrator between different offended parties without being judgemental or biased. The reason I say minister is partly because I don't need or want the moderator tools in order to accomplish mediation between people, and that I don't think I have earned it.
However I feel the position of minister would be necessary because of the role I wish to play in strengthening this community. I want people to be able to approach me on issues and be able to represent the collective goals and ideas of CoG appropriately.

Now I could have just sent this to the moderators and ministers, or the landlord but I would like to discuss my views with whoever is interested.

So do people agree that I could arbitrate these troubles and help start the peace process?
Any other questions, comments or suggestions? please voice them. Without feedback I can't adjust accordingly.

Tsar Phalanxia
May 18th, 2009, 02:45 PM
I totally agree with you, up to about the sixth paragraph. Personally, I feel you have too much baggage with PD (Note: That's not a personal attack, I'm just commenting your suggestion that you are neutral), and that i you want two men on the inside, Cain would be a better choice.

Clark Nova
May 18th, 2009, 03:00 PM
I totally agree with you, up to about the sixth paragraph. Personally, I feel you have too much baggage with PD (Note: That's not a personal attack, I'm just commenting your suggestion that you are neutral), and that i you want two men on the inside, Cain would be a better choice.
Ah, so you think I would have a biased disposition towards people from the principia.
Interesting comment with "two men on the inside". You suspect my motives? That is why I said the position of minister. I would not actually be regulating content. Merely discussing issues with various people. Its true I would like for a more proportional representation for the pd members who were involved in these troubles, and that it would be advantageous in the long run.
If you feel cain would be better suited then we could approach him, but I think he explicitly said he was not interested in such a position, but I may be wrong.
Who is the other person "on the inside"? I didn't know anyone from the principia was a minister.

fomenter
May 18th, 2009, 03:10 PM
tgrr is a minister.

Clark Nova
May 18th, 2009, 03:19 PM
tgrr is a minister.
Thats odd, you would think the moderators would be encouraged to have consistant guide as to what is expected, roger cant really do his job properly without that. I know there is no one running the ship but I seriously think that all the moderators and ministers and members come up with some kind of consistant arrangement that works for everyone.

fomenter
May 18th, 2009, 03:41 PM
i personally would do away with the ministers position altogether, it is a part of the culture of elitism that is causing mod troubles and its unnecessary,

i would like to see the mods using the resources they have here, both the pd crowd and a couple of the existing mods have a lot of ideas and knowledge of forum operation and the human dynamics that go on.. its a shame to waste them..

rzm61
May 18th, 2009, 05:19 PM
i personally would do away with the ministers position altogether, it is a part of the culture of elitism that is causing mod troubles and its unnecessary,


I don't fully agree with that. What's causing all the troubles is you guys...and the inexperience of some mods.

fomenter
May 18th, 2009, 05:35 PM
I don't fully agree with that. What's causing all the troubles is you guys...and the inexperience of some mods.

inexperience is part
the culture created by the way things are set up (including ministers) is part
the mod history of "getting off too a bad start the bad gets perpetuated" is part
and us putting a lot of stress on the weak points in the system is part (yes us guys too)

but with out the stress you don't see the slow death the forum was going thru, we probably suck from your perspective (suck a lot even) but if vibrant and thriving is what you ultimately want, growing pains are the price, no really good forums are run the way this one is and this has a very good shot at being a good one,
if you make the effort...

rzm61
May 18th, 2009, 05:38 PM
Eh, I don't know. You guys keep saying this place was dying an all, yet every time I come back here there is a shit ton of new posts. I still have two more pages of unread threads to go through. Doesnt sound too dead to me.

Also nice post count ;)

fomenter
May 18th, 2009, 05:53 PM
10 out of 12 of the top sd topics were stared by pd crossover members in an effort to jumpstart the section after a mod gutted it and moved 14 topics

re-verb from the TGRR baning account for a lot of threads that are active
and daruko flame outs many of the rest
much of the moving and shaking you see right now is from the transition coG is in

Clark Nova
May 18th, 2009, 05:59 PM
Eh, I don't know. You guys keep saying this place was dying an all, yet every time I come back here there is a shit ton of new posts. I still have two more pages of unread threads to go through. Doesnt sound too dead to me.

Also nice post count ;)
Its true there have been a large amount of posts in the last week. However a great deal of them were about posters or the way things are being run. These need to be reduced (but not suppressed as that accomplishes nothing), that's why I want to aid the communication channels so there will be less need for such disturbance.
Whats your opinion on my promoting myself to act as a minister rzm?

Dolores
May 18th, 2009, 06:08 PM
I would support you as minister, except that I really strongly disapprove of the "minister" position and the hierarchy of favoritism it implies.

fomenter
May 18th, 2009, 06:10 PM
I would support you as minister, except that I really strongly disapprove of the "minister" position and the hierarchy of favoritism it implies.
:icon_lol: Dolores with the correct answer on the first try..

Clark Nova
May 18th, 2009, 06:11 PM
I would support you as minister, except that I really strongly disapprove of the "minister" position and the hierarchy of favoritism it implies.
If its role was properly explained as a forum guide/information source as opposed to part of a royalty then would you have a problem with it?

rzm61
May 18th, 2009, 06:21 PM
However a great deal of them were about posters or the way things are being run.

Traffic is still traffic though.

Whats your opinion on my promoting myself to act as a minister rzm?


Hmm...good question.

-I had a paragraph typed out but I just erased it all. I didn't like how it sounded.-

So I guess in short...only time will tell.

fomenter
May 18th, 2009, 06:21 PM
If its role was properly explained as a forum guide/information source as opposed to part of a royalty then would you have a problem with it?
i suspect it will never loose its elitism no mater how well it is defined,

and it seems unnecessary if the mods did there job and the forum was set up to avoid abuses, then what does a minister do?

Dolores
May 18th, 2009, 06:23 PM
i suspect it will never loose its elitism no mater how well it is defined,

and it seems unnecessary if the mods did there job and the forum was set up to avoid abuses, then what does a minister do?

That's my question as well. What is the purpose?

Clark Nova
May 18th, 2009, 06:23 PM
i suspect it will never loose its elitism no mater how well it is defined,

and it seems unnecessary if the mods did there job and the forum was set up to avoid abuses, then what does a minister do?
Acts as a glorified sign post and vocal aid for communication with members.

Dolores
May 18th, 2009, 06:25 PM
Didn't do much for Roger.

rzm61
May 18th, 2009, 06:26 PM
What is the purpose?

Just a fancy title if I'm not mistaken.

Clark Nova
May 18th, 2009, 06:27 PM
Didn't do much for Roger.
If roger doesn't want the position I would gladly trade.

fomenter
May 18th, 2009, 06:29 PM
Acts as a glorified sign post and vocal aid for communication with members.

i would give you my vote if i had one and maybe you could do something good with it, but in my mind the whole minister position is seriously flawed in its conception, hierarchy, favoritism etc..

rzm61
May 18th, 2009, 06:31 PM
but in my mind the whole minister position is seriously flawed in its conception, hierarchy, favoritism etc..

How?!

I think it's just easy for you to say that cause you're not a minister. :icon_razz:

Clark Nova
May 18th, 2009, 06:32 PM
How?!

I think it's just easy for you to say that cause you're not a minister. :icon_razz:

I am not a minister but I would like to be, whats your opinion on it rzm?

fomenter
May 18th, 2009, 06:35 PM
quick answer i don't want to be one...

i went through all my reasons before the tgrr blowout and have offered to go back and dig up my posts from the rubble, i have to work today so some time this afternoon i will try to put it all together for you..

rzm61
May 18th, 2009, 06:46 PM
I am not a minister but I would like to be, whats your opinion on it rzm?


Keep contributing to the CoG?

Clark Nova
May 18th, 2009, 06:49 PM
Keep contributing to the CoG?
Very well, what solutions are being discussed for the current problems?

Paris Hilton
May 18th, 2009, 06:50 PM
The concept of "Minister" here was a good idea...
The posters that contributed to site growth etc were promoted to the title.
That concept was lost a long time ago, now it's nothing more than "I'm a minister, big shot me".
It now serves no purpose other then to make some people feel superior to others and should be abolished.

If someone (anyone) really wants to help this forum, than do so. No title is necessary for that, it's simply, "helping your community".

fomenter
May 18th, 2009, 06:50 PM
How?!

I think it's just easy for you to say that cause you're not a minister. :icon_razz:

the other short answer is contained in your statement, the automatic assumption that i would want "elite" minister status and that i would only protest it because of sour grapes from not being one.
the divide you just created is the problem with this forum its why (in part) mods obsessivly move posts to show their control its why the toadies constantly lick their boots to curry favor (to become elite) hierarchy is why religion is a joke and needs to be parodied

Dr. Drilling_Teeth
May 18th, 2009, 07:18 PM
In my opinion, if someone NEEDS a guidepost/helpful sign etc in order to function in a forum... something is terribly wrong in that forum.

Forums are not rocket science. Forums do not need a gaggle of Leaders/Ministers/Barons/Princes/High Magistrates/Bishops/or anything else. They need someone to clean out the spam, and ban people that do illegal shit. Anything else results in cat herding, tribal/territorial disputes and hundreds of posts wherein every spag that has an account ID thinks they need to weigh in on it.

Myself included.

rzm61
May 18th, 2009, 07:25 PM
the other short answer is contained in your statement, the automatic assumption that i would want "elite" minister status and that i would only protest it because of sour grapes from not being one.
the divide you just created is the problem with this forum its why (in part) mods obsessivly move posts to show their control its why the toadies constantly lick their boots to curry favor (to become elite) hierarchy is why religion is a joke and needs to be parodied

You act like there is a shit ton of mods, and that all the mods do this.

And if so, you're wrong. Just my opinion though.

Tsar Phalanxia
May 18th, 2009, 07:40 PM
The primary role of the minister is to serve as a piss take on the religious hierarchy of conventional religious. A secondary feature, which has resulted as it would be clumsy for these two posts to be separate is to have more input and help the mods more than a normal, just registered member would.

fomenter
May 18th, 2009, 07:40 PM
You act like there is a shit ton of mods, and that all the mods do this.

And if so, you're wrong. Just my opinion though.

thirteen mods on a small forum!!! most are inactive and shouldn't be mods at all, a few are hyperactive and get a lot of attention for it and should chill out (these cause the attitude and promote the culture i am referring to),
and some quietly do there job and go unnoticed keep those ones...


the whole thing leads to what dr drillin said Forums do not need a gaggle
Leaders/Ministers/Barons/Princes/High Magistrates/Bishops/or anything else. They need someone to clean out the spam, and ban people that do illegal shit. Anything else results in
the cat herding, tribal/territorial disputes and hundreds of posts wherein every spag that has an account ID thinks they need to weigh in on it.

fomenter
May 18th, 2009, 07:43 PM
The primary role of the minister is to serve as a piss take on the religious hierarchy of conventional religious. A secondary feature, which has resulted as it would be clumsy for these two posts to be separate is to have more input and help the mods more than a normal, just registered member would.

if its intended as a joke it has gone horribly wrong you are what you tried to parody,

as for helping see above posts.

Paris Hilton
May 18th, 2009, 07:46 PM
The primary role of the minister is to serve as a piss take on the religious hierarchy of conventional religious. A secondary feature, which has resulted as it would be clumsy for these two posts to be separate is to have more input and help the mods more than a normal, just registered member would.

What have you done for this forum Mr Minister?
I mean other than posting up a users ip addy?
Tits on a bull, utterly useless, you.

Tsar Phalanxia
May 18th, 2009, 07:50 PM
if its intended as a joke it has gone horribly wrong you are what you tried to parody,

as for helping see above posts.
Well, isn't that all part of the joke?
What have you done for this forum Mr Minister?
Well, more than you have at least.

I mean other than posting up a users ip addy?
*Proxy of a troll

fomenter
May 18th, 2009, 07:54 PM
Well, isn't that all part of the joke?

the part where others point and laugh at you maybe,

Dolores
May 18th, 2009, 08:38 PM
Well, isn't that all part of the joke?

Well, more than you have at least.

*Proxy of a troll

So ministers get to decide that someone's a troll and post their IP because you've decided that probably the IP finder you ran it through is right about it being a proxy?

And you base this on what? You don't like their posts? You don't like their viewpoints? If someone's a racist, or a misogynist, you get to decide they're a troll and post their IP? Or if they're a noob here and they're challenging a mod, you get to decide they're a troll and post their IP? Because the IP tool you ran it through says it's a proxy, and it's probably right, because after all they're accurate about 2/3 of the time?

At what point do you draw the line on this?

fomenter
May 18th, 2009, 08:47 PM
that's the other thing ministers get lame and mostly useless powers but seeing ip is an Internet trust/security issue and giving it out to any kid that has sufficantly kissed moderator ass?

Dolores
May 18th, 2009, 08:55 PM
that's the other thing ministers get lame and mostly useless powers but seeing ip is an Internet trust/security issue and giving it out to any kid that has sufficantly kissed moderator ass?

Agreed. I'm not super comfortable knowing that everyone who happens to be a minister can see my IP.

In fact, I think that's pretty alarming. I'm a divorced mom... I don't want every internet twerp who's posted enough on a random site to have access to my IP. :(

Paris Hilton
May 18th, 2009, 08:57 PM
Agreed. I'm not super comfortable knowing that everyone's who happens to be a minister can see my IP.

In fact, I think that's pretty alarming. I'm a divorced mom... I don't want every internet twerp who's posted enough on a random site to have access to my IP. :(
I feel the same.

fomenter
May 18th, 2009, 09:05 PM
Agreed. I'm not super comfortable knowing that everyone who happens to be a minister can see my IP.

In fact, I think that's pretty alarming. I'm a divorced mom... I don't want every internet twerp who's posted enough on a random site to have access to my IP. :(
from what i got to read before it got buried, i think the lady who's ip got posted felt about the same...

it is pretty shady in my book..

The Good Reverend Roger
May 19th, 2009, 09:45 PM
I totally agree with you, up to about the sixth paragraph. Personally, I feel you have too much baggage with PD

Posts like this are why things are never, ever going to get better.

Clark Nova
May 19th, 2009, 09:57 PM
Its true, Tsar and others are horribly biased against anyone who has come from PD.
Even if they are only here because we are effectively sister sites.

The Good Reverend Roger
May 19th, 2009, 10:05 PM
Its true, Tsar and others are horribly biased against anyone who has come from PD.
Even if they are only here because we are effectively sister sites.

Yep. Tsar and SF are particularly bad about this. And it's never going to change, so why bother trying?

Clark Nova
May 19th, 2009, 10:07 PM
Yep. Tsar and SF are particularly bad about this. And it's never going to change, so why bother trying?
I haven't given up yet, I blame their young age for them not wanting this place to improve, I know tsar tries to contribute sometimes.

The Good Reverend Roger
May 19th, 2009, 10:08 PM
I haven't given up yet, I blame their young age for them not wanting this place to improve, I know tsar tries to contribute sometimes.

Meh. I don't particularly care to contribute, for two reasons:

1. Everything I DID contribute got stashed in Google Chat to die, because

2. We're second class citizens.

Clark Nova
May 19th, 2009, 10:12 PM
Meh. I don't particularly care to contribute, for two reasons:

1. Everything I DID contribute got stashed in Google Chat to die, because

2. We're second class citizens.

Its true, we have less rights then other users but it is just because of one or two mods.
But I think with persistence and making sure it is in public view, shame will make them give up their hypocritical and damaging ways.