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The Laughing Man
May 23rd, 2009, 06:52 PM
I was always too much of a nerd to have a hobby as manly as car customisation.

However,
http://www.ota-suke.jp/photo/1112/6873

http://i39.tinypic.com/mud9ua.jpghttp://i43.tinypic.com/148lts0.jpghttp://i43.tinypic.com/2na7hck.jpghttp://i41.tinypic.com/1zyj2md.jpg

They're just like those hikikomori anime nerd bedrooms covered in figures and dakimakura, only they have wheels.

And even though I'm nowhere near as nerdy or wealthy as these guys, I can't deny that I want that Kanon bike.

fomenter
May 23rd, 2009, 07:15 PM
http://www.ota-suke.jp/images/product/review/cb523167b12c4ae657cf55bbb4c299806041066f.jpg
blow up dolls not just for secretly buying from the back of seedy magazines any more.

The Laughing Man
May 23rd, 2009, 07:26 PM
Two of them even. This man is obviously popular with the ladies.

Cain
May 23rd, 2009, 08:16 PM
I thought this was going to be a joke thread about running Daruko over :(

Also, there is a Hello Kitty Ferrari out there, somewhere. Yes, it is an abomination.

The Laughing Man
May 23rd, 2009, 11:31 PM
I thought this was going to be a joke thread about running Daruko over :(

I'm personally hoping for a serious thread about Daruko getting run over.

Tsar Phalanxia
May 24th, 2009, 09:07 AM
Obviously the dream cars of many a Western "Otaku" (Read: Wapanese.) The fact that they call themselves Otaku willingly without understanding the connotations behind the word (Socially incompetent nerds who have a tendency to rape and kill and people) shows just how little knowledge they have of Japan itself, beyond the animé and computer games. They think that just by eating their lunch in a bento box and knowing what "Konnichiwa" and "Sayonara" means, that they are Japanese. They reduce the culture and people of Japan to a lifestyle choice.

The Laughing Man
May 24th, 2009, 10:19 AM
The fact that they call themselves Otaku willingly without understanding the connotations behind the word (Socially incompetent nerds who have a tendency to rape and kill and people)

What? Raping and killing? An otaku is just someone with a very specific obsession. I'm not sure where you got the idea that they're some sort of criminals.

There are train otaku, ADV otaku, idol otaku, movie otaku and even things like insect otaku. Not just anime otaku, like you and most other foreigners seem to think. And as weird as it is for English speakers to use the word, it doesn't just apply to Japanese people. You're the one that doesn't know what he's talking about in this case, I'm afraid.

And for the record, the large majority of Japanese anime otaku are harmless, even though some of them are just as annoying as their western counterparts. A lot of them are respectable members of society with high-paying jobs that help them fund their hobbies. They're just nerds with money, not murderers and rapists.

shows just how little knowledge they have of Japan itself

You did just do that, yeah. Kind of makes you sound like an elitist wapanese who hasn't really researched what he's talking about. :\

Tsar Phalanxia
May 24th, 2009, 11:01 AM
What? Raping and killing? An otaku is just someone with a very specific obsession. I'm not sure where you got the idea that they're some sort of criminals.

There are train otaku, ADV otaku, idol otaku, movie otaku and even things like insect otaku. Not just anime otaku, like you and most other foreigners seem to think. And as weird as it is for English speakers to use the word, it doesn't just apply to Japanese people. You're the one that doesn't know what he's talking about in this case, I'm afraid.

And for the record, the large majority of Japanese anime otaku are harmless, even though some of them are just as annoying as their western counterparts. A lot of them are respectable members of society with high-paying jobs that help them fund their hobbies. They're just nerds with money, not murderers and rapists.

I know that there's all kinds of things Otaku can be interested, from animé through to actress's bra sizes. I was talking about the specific connotations of the word in Japan, not that they are all murdering rapists, only that there have been a few select cases wherein otaku have murdered and raped people, and the Japanese have used the otaku psyche as a possible explanation for it. Looking back on my reply, that wasn't really clear, and I should have worded it better. However, my point that most Western "Otaku " think that by reading a book from right to left and that noodles for lunch makes them Japanese still holds.

The Laughing Man
May 24th, 2009, 11:10 AM
there have been a few select cases wherein otaku have murdered and raped people

[citation needed]

Are you referring to the Akihabara stabbing thing a while ago? The Japanese media does have a tendency to blame millions of people in a distinct social group for the actions of one man, yes. There was also the Sasebo slashing years ago where they put an 11 year old girl in prison. They tried to blame that on the internet, especially 2channel. Apart from those, I can't think of any major crimes that could be linked to otaku.

And I'm not sure where the rape accusation came from. Sources please.

Dolores
May 24th, 2009, 04:24 PM
there have been a few select cases wherein otaku have murdered and raped people

there have been a few select cases wherein sports fans have murdered and raped people

there have been a few select cases wherein snorkelers have murdered and raped people

there have been a few select cases wherein Trekkies have murdered and raped people

there have been a few select cases wherein lawyers have murdered and raped people

there have been a few select cases wherein convenience store employees have murdered and raped people

there have been a few select cases wherein Harry Potter readers have murdered and raped people

Cain
May 24th, 2009, 04:44 PM
There have been select cases where newborn babies have raped and murdered people.

There have been select cases where dead people have raped and murdered people.

The Laughing Man
May 24th, 2009, 05:46 PM
Pshaw. Artefact just steals news from other blogs and posts it on his own and then either him or his lackeys spam the URL all over the internet.

The Laughing Man
May 24th, 2009, 06:39 PM
I just read Heisei Democracy (http://heiseidemocracy.com/) myself. It tends to stick to otaku news alone. Sankaku Complex is way too full of fluff that he posts as an excuse to whore out his blog on /jp/ and the like.

The Laughing Man
May 24th, 2009, 06:44 PM
Oh and this too (http://en.akibablog.net/), I guess. It's all in Engrish but way more up to date. And the Japanese version is updated more regularly.

The Good Reverend Roger
May 24th, 2009, 06:50 PM
I was always too much of a nerd to have a hobby as manly as car customisation.

However,
http://www.ota-suke.jp/photo/1112/6873

http://i39.tinypic.com/mud9ua.jpghttp://i43.tinypic.com/148lts0.jpghttp://i43.tinypic.com/2na7hck.jpghttp://i41.tinypic.com/1zyj2md.jpg

They're just like those hikikomori anime nerd bedrooms covered in figures and dakimakura, only they have wheels.

And even though I'm nowhere near as nerdy or wealthy as these guys, I can't deny that I want that Kanon bike.

How the fuck do I get to Russia from here?

Listen up, retards: The ONLY acceptable things to add to the outside of a vehicle are the following:

1. Dents. Lots and lots of fucking dents.

2. Rust. Later, primer is okay, providing it does not match the vehicle's original primer or paint scheme.

3. Scratches.

4. Animals and birds in the grille.

5. Bugs on the windshield.

That's fucking IT. Anything else, and you're a fucking girl. END OF STORY.

The Laughing Man
May 24th, 2009, 07:03 PM
How the fuck do I get to Russia from here?

Listen up, retards: The ONLY acceptable things to add to the outside of a vehicle are the following:

1. Dents. Lots and lots of fucking dents.

2. Rust. Later, primer is okay, providing it does not match the vehicle's original primer or paint scheme.

3. Scratches.

4. Animals and birds in the grille.

5. Bugs on the windshield.

That's fucking IT. Anything else, and you're a fucking girl. END OF STORY.

So what you're saying here is that it's not okay for a grown man to have anime dolls, dresses and hug pillows in the back of his car?

fomenter
May 24th, 2009, 07:09 PM
How the fuck do I get to Russia from here?

Listen up, retards: The ONLY acceptable things to add to the outside of a vehicle are the following:

1. Dents. Lots and lots of fucking dents.

2. Rust. Later, primer is okay, providing it does not match the vehicle's original primer or paint scheme.

3. Scratches.

4. Animals and birds in the grille.

5. Bugs on the windshield.

That's fucking IT. Anything else, and you're a fucking girl. END OF STORY.

6. duck tape

7. rusty chain to attach loose bumper/hood

8. bullet holes

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/fnord_photo/pickup2.jpg?t=1243188372

The Good Reverend Roger
May 24th, 2009, 07:20 PM
So what you're saying here is that it's not okay for a grown man to have anime dolls, dresses and hug pillows in the back of his car?


He can have whatever perverted, semi-pedo shit he wants. BUT NOT IN HIS FUCKING CAR. There are fucking LIMITS.

And just what the jabbering FUCK is up with this Japanese shit, any goddamn way? EVERYTHING is okay, if it's Japanese. The 3,000,000th ripoff of giant battle robots? NO FUCKING PROBLEM! It's JAPANESE. You want some NON-JAPANESE women with HUGE tits and no other secondary sex characteristics that look like they're 12 year old Dolly Partons? IT'S OKAY, because it's fucking JAPANESE.

I gotta amend that first statement. If you're a guy and you own ANY hug pillows for ANY reason, kick yourself in the balls.

The Good Reverend Roger
May 24th, 2009, 07:20 PM
6. duck tape

7. rusty chain to attach loose bumper/hood

8. bullet holes

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/fnord_photo/pickup2.jpg?t=1243188372

Shit yeah.

The Good Reverend Roger
May 24th, 2009, 07:48 PM
This just sounds extremely hypocritical coming from you. >_>

I don't practice what I preach, because I'm not the kind of guy I'm preaching to.

Also, I have never, ever insisted that there should be no limits. I simply stated that there should be something resembling freedom of expression that doesn't result in your threads being buried in one of the loser forums by a mod who doesn't like you.

The Laughing Man
May 24th, 2009, 08:02 PM
He can have whatever perverted, semi-pedo shit he wants. BUT NOT IN HIS FUCKING CAR. There are fucking LIMITS.

And just what the jabbering FUCK is up with this Japanese shit, any goddamn way? EVERYTHING is okay, if it's Japanese. The 3,000,000th ripoff of giant battle robots? NO FUCKING PROBLEM! It's JAPANESE. You want some NON-JAPANESE women with HUGE tits and no other secondary sex characteristics that look like they're 12 year old Dolly Partons? IT'S OKAY, because it's fucking JAPANESE.

I gotta amend that first statement. If you're a guy and you own ANY hug pillows for ANY reason, kick yourself in the balls.

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of my anime voice actress punk covers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yltEQ41-zgA).

http://i39.tinypic.com/spxd05.jpg

The Good Reverend Roger
May 24th, 2009, 08:04 PM
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of my anime voice actress punk covers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yltEQ41-zgA).

http://i39.tinypic.com/spxd05.jpg

WTF IS THAT SHIT? http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/Smileys/default/crankey.gif

The Laughing Man
May 24th, 2009, 08:08 PM
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/Smileys/default/roglol.gif

The Good Reverend Roger
May 24th, 2009, 08:09 PM
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/Smileys/default/roglol.gif


Congratulations. You just burned right through my valium buzz.

The Laughing Man
May 24th, 2009, 08:10 PM
Congratulations. You just burned right through my valium buzz.

Japan has that effect sometimes.

The Good Reverend Roger
May 24th, 2009, 08:13 PM
Japan has that effect sometimes.

Japan has that effect ALL THE TIME.

Did you see that shit where those Japanese freaks were suing for the right to marry their favorite anime heroines? Not fucking kidding, here. They wanted the right to marry a fictional CARTOON CHARACTER.

The Laughing Man
May 24th, 2009, 08:19 PM
Japan has that effect ALL THE TIME.

Did you see that shit where those Japanese freaks were suing for the right to marry their favorite anime heroines? Not fucking kidding, here. They wanted the right to marry a fictional CARTOON CHARACTER.

I saw a petition for that. :icon_lol:

A translated quote:
“We’ve no interest in the 3D. If we could, we’d like to live in a 2D world. However, with current technology, this is not possible. So at the very least, can we have marriage to 2D characters legally recognised? If this were to come to pass, I intend to marry Asahina Mikuru (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikuru_Asahina).”

And Japan is wondering why the birth rate is declining.

On a related note:
http://www.myfconline.com/

fomenter
May 24th, 2009, 08:20 PM
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of my anime voice actress punk covers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yltEQ41-zgA).

http://i39.tinypic.com/spxd05.jpg
sure its what you knew was going on when you saw the above picture,
but in case you didn't get a clear enough mental image


















http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p119/poomboba/2008May23193117_2938.jpg

The Laughing Man
May 24th, 2009, 08:21 PM
My eyes don't feel saved at all. http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/Smileys/default/icon_mad.gif

Cain
May 25th, 2009, 12:57 PM
And this is the country I'm applying to study in, folks!

Dolores
May 25th, 2009, 05:33 PM
I saw a petition for that. :icon_lol:

On a related note:
http://www.myfconline.com/

That is one of the stupidest things I have ever seen in my LIFE.

The Laughing Man
May 25th, 2009, 07:23 PM
They have forums.

Dolores
May 25th, 2009, 07:50 PM
They have forums.

OSHI-!

Yiuel
May 25th, 2009, 09:09 PM
Cain : Oh do you?

But be happy, unless you really are unlucky, you won't meet with anything like that. Otaku mostly stay at home, hence their "name".

And I know that by experience. Yes, I lived there.

TLM : Otaku is basically a sociological problem. But it appears to be more widespread in the Western world than what we would think. And the Anime geeks of Oubei are not otaku (though some may be).

Otaku usually share some points in common : they have some kind of psychological issue that bares them from a lot of relations with people. They close themselves from other people and genuinely hide from society as a whole. In psychology, they're basically socially phobiac people, scared to death (or disgusted) at most social relations : they have evolved ways to evade these relations as much as possible, to the extreme of never getting out home. In Japan, this is acerbated by the fact people expect you to be socially related to people in a lot of ways, and not stay alone. Not so much in NorthAm or Europe, but you can find people who do become otaku here (we don't call them otaku, obviously).

I was otaku myself, but in the past, and especially before I ever came in touch with anything Japanese. Actually, it is when I became less fearful socially that I went into learning Japanese. So, in a way, I got out of my otakuism when I got to college, where I learned about the Japanese language.

(As for how people do become otaku in that sense, it's easy : bullying. In a society where all your relations turn around peers (and not family or other relations), you're more likely to be bullied. This is where most otaku come from in Japan, and there are a lot more people feeling the same way in the western world.)

To others : I'd be happy to point all the silly shit people can do in any other country, including my own. In the US, we have seen a lot worse than that, and it would be easy I am sure to get links. :P

The Laughing Man
May 25th, 2009, 10:26 PM
Otaku is basically a sociological problem.

I don't think it's a problem at all. Otaku are for the most part productive members of society and pose no risk to anyone.

The Japanese media is just too eager to pick on anyone who isn't entirely "normal".

But it appears to be more widespread in the Western world than what we would think.

I play visual novels, have spent far too much money on nicovideo, mostly on ai sp@ce, and I'm somewhat obsessed with Touhou and Idolm@ster.

It's something I tend not to talk about IRL much though. Do I qualify?

And the Anime geeks of Oubei are not otaku (though some may be).

I think that people in western countries with otaku interests just aren't as open about them.

Injokes and references aren't funny if no one else knows what you're talking about.

Otaku usually share some points in common : they have some kind of psychological issue that bares them from a lot of relations with people. They close themselves from other people and genuinely hide from society as a whole. In psychology, they're basically socially phobiac people, scared to death (or disgusted) at most social relations : they have evolved ways to evade these relations as much as possible, to the extreme of never getting out home.

Not all otaku are hikikomori. I won't deny that a lot of hikikomori are otaku however.

I also feel that I should point out how exaggerated the Japanese government's figures on hikikomori are.


Not so much in NorthAm or Europe, but you can find people who do become otaku here (we don't call them otaku, obviously).

Definitely. The people who call themselves otaku in western countries tend to be extroverted convention-goers and annoying yaoi fangirls.

I was otaku myself, but in the past, and especially before I ever came in touch with anything Japanese. Actually, it is when I became less fearful socially that I went into learning Japanese. So, in a way, I got out of my otakuism when I got to college, where I learned about the Japanese language.

It was the opposite for me, to be honest. I was interested in Japanese history and all that stuff. I started out with geisha and sengoku jidai and three years later I'm collecting figmas.

As for how people do become otaku in that sense, it's easy : bullying.

In some cases, maybe. Introverts and even hermits have existed since long before the otaku phenomenon came about though.

Cain
May 26th, 2009, 02:41 PM
Cain : Oh do you?

But be happy, unless you really are unlucky, you won't meet with anything like that. Otaku mostly stay at home, hence their "name".

And I know that by experience. Yes, I lived there.

Applying for the MEXT scholarship fund. Besides, I know I'll be shunted into international student accomodation anyhow.

Yiuel
May 26th, 2009, 04:07 PM
Okay, now I see where the misunderstanding stands.

Where I live (Canada), "Otaku" for what you describe as "Hikikomori". Hence, I was describing (and so Tsar) hikikomoris. What you use for "Otaku", I simply call that "Geek" (I also use Otaku in that sense, for anime/manga geeks). Another word is "fanatic", but it bears to many political and religious connotations today.

Introverts and even hermits have existed since long before the otaku phenomenon came about though.

Being an introvert or an hermit is something different from being someone shutting himself up for hikikomori-esque reasons. It becomes a problem when you cannot go out and meet people, and this happens to a lot of people in modern societies.

Introverts can go out and meet people, but don't show much of what is inside them. Hermits appreciate being alone, and don't necessarly want to meet people, but they don't have problems with meeting people. The socially phobiac person simply can't : he'll go anxious and ultimately collapse from it being too difficult. Most of the hikikomori phenomena is exactly that, not very different, except that in Japan, ostracisation is harder when you're hit by it.

(Not all phobias are strong, and that's the same for social phobias. Mine, which I have been working out, has been said to be fairly mild, for various lucky chances that I got, including one that I'll meet again this very day today. I was able to survive through childhood into adulthood. But into adulthood, I met my demise, and learn still some things.)

Cain : Oh, I might try to get that one. I'll be attempting for the next round (2011), but I'll try JET first (as CIR, I'm a French speaker, might be easier to get a place thus than applying for ALT)

The Laughing Man
May 26th, 2009, 06:08 PM
Where I live (Canada), "Otaku" for what you describe as "Hikikomori". Hence, I was describing (and so Tsar) hikikomoris. What you use for "Otaku", I simply call that "Geek" (I also use Otaku in that sense, for anime/manga geeks).

Well, I live in the UK (as does Tsar IIRC) where neither of those words are used much at all. I was using them in the same way as they are used in Japan.

And if we're talking about hikikomori, I don't see how they can be linked to crime at all. They're probably even less likely to commit rape or murder, given that they stay inside their bedrooms for months at a time.


Being an introvert or an hermit is something different from being someone shutting himself up for hikikomori-esque reasons.

Actually, some of them really do prefer being seperate from society for much the same reasons as a hermit would. If you check out the hikikomori board on 2ch (http://love6.2ch.net/hikky/), you'll see that while most of them are scared to leave their house in case they're judged or whatever, there are a few there that harbour a deep hatred for other people and choose to stay seperate from them for that reason. It's still selfish in a lot of cases and this might just be a different reaction to the same conditions of bullying and social pressure, but it's still different. And while it's okay to guess at why people would do that themselves, I don't think you can point at one cause and speak for all of them.

Anyway, I doubt that Japan's perceived hikikomori "problem" would be any worse than most first-world capitalist nations if the media and government hadn't made such a big deal out of it. Not to mention the parents of a lot of these people who just let them get on with it. I honestly think that it has all been blown out of proportion.

Yiuel
May 26th, 2009, 08:15 PM
And if we're talking about hikikomori, I don't see how they can be linked to crime at all. They're probably even less likely to commit rape or murder, given that they stay inside their bedrooms for months at a time.

Like for eveything is social sciences (like criminology), it's hard to link one thing to another.

However, there is a strong correlation between socially traumatic experiences during socialization and later criminal activities. Since social phobia (the actual name we have in the West for hikikomori) is also related to the same kind of traumas, a link between hikikomori and some crimes (especially hate crimes towards society in general) are easily linked.

Furthermore, if you look at cases of school killing spray in the west, you'll notice that most (I would dare say all) were basically seperated from society, pretty much hating it in a very hateful way. While probably most people who were traumatised will never do that, some will, for various reasons that are hard to explain. But they certainly do not come out of nowhere, especially in cases where they do hate crimes aimed to their social peers.

However...

Anyway, I doubt that Japan's perceived hikikomori "problem" would be any worse than most first-world capitalist nations if the media and government hadn't made such a big deal out of it. Not to mention the parents of a lot of these people who just let them get on with it. I honestly think that it has all been blown out of proportion.

Most crimes in Japan are commited by the same kind of people elsewhere in the West. There is actually not much difference, and crime rates are generally lower in Japan (for reasons related to their education system up until recently).

However, the hikikomori issue is not a false one in Japan. But the issue is elsewhere, and is linked to the reason why Japan's crime rate is substantially lower.

The reason why Japan's crime rate has been so low is its educational system. It's not an educational system at all : while it pretends to teach things, it's mostly scramming (not much different from what we have here). However, what is much much more different is how school is the social gathering of everyone. Club activity, while "not mandatory" implicitly is and you are strongly encouraged to take part in any club activity. In these, you learn all the social ways of Japan.

However, some children are bad with social things and turn out not being able to fit there, others might have passions not represented in those club activities, and finally, being out of the norms in some way in Japan (especially, being overweight) may make you out-of-the-game. This is not much a problem at first, but it can grow into a big problem in Japan, since club activity is very important socially between peers. Those who ultimately don't go might fall into dead-ends in their lifes when becoming adults. This finally turns into some kind of poverty.

And in Japan, when you miss the train, you miss it forever. (Because you turn out not to be normal...)

(In the West, this isn't too much of a problem, as far as I understand. It becomes a problem when in adult life, you cannot interact. In Japan, it already becomes one at the beginning.)

Actually, some of them really do prefer being seperate from society for much the same reasons as a hermit would. If you check out the hikikomori board on 2ch (http://love6.2ch.net/hikky/), you'll see that while most of them are scared to leave their house in case they're judged or whatever, there are a few there that harbour a deep hatred for other people and choose to stay seperate from them for that reason. It's still selfish in a lot of cases and this might just be a different reaction to the same conditions of bullying and social pressure, but it's still different. And while it's okay to guess at why people would do that themselves, I don't think you can point at one cause and speak for all of them.

Hatred and fear aren't much different from each other. Hatred often grows out of fear, though it also often grows out of bad experiences (which can also be the cause of fear). Ever heard of the run away/attack dichotomy?. Run away is "fear". Attack is "hatred". Opposites to answer to a threat, which in some cases will be society, causing hikikomori. Not all hatred of societies are caused by what I am explaining, however, you might want to ask the reasons why they don't like society. If you dig, you'll be surprised of the answers, and I would guess that, with most of them, you'll find a very personal (and fairly traumatic) reason why they don't like. Mostly some real bad experience.