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Shiggety
October 4th, 2006, 04:50 AM
I just read the hate mail section of the site and laugh wholeheartly (as I usually do) at idiots who can't help but reinforce that they are idiots.

"Omnipresent? Is that even a word?" Yes. Yes it is. Maybe you should put down that bible and pick up a dictionary.

The thing that really bothers me is the fact that Christians always feel as though they are the one true religion. Christianity and the history behind it is just as laughable as the idea of Google being God. (Genious idea, by the way. I'm proud to be an Ontarian now.) All these people "spreading the word" about the bible, and how it'll "save your life". The thing about it is many people who do read the bible, read the parts they want to read. You'll never hear a Christian reffering you to, say, Exodus 21:7 which states that if a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not allowed to walk free as menservants do. The thing about Christians is that they preach that what the Bible says, goes. If they really think that, why don't they kill everybody who works on Sundays? The Bible says to do that too. (Exodus 35:2)

Christian children grow up with the kiddy ideals of Christian Society. "Moses got on a big boat in a rainstorm and saved all the animals! Isn't that great kids?" Well sure. It would be great. (if it were plausible) But what happened to Jimmy? And Jimmy's parents? And Jimmy's neighbors? And their parents? Well, they all died a horribly slow and painful death. Somehow, I get the feeling that now more than ever, children don't get the chance to think for themselves. They don't get the chance to go "Hey... wait a minute... do I really belive this?" And hey listen, if you do. That's great. Whatever works right? I'm a buddhist, you're a christian, we're both living happy lives. I don't force my opinions on you, don't force them on me is all i'm saying really.

So. Step out of your door one morning and tell yourself you're going to make your own descisions that day. It's stressful having someone always looking over your shoulder, right? Let that go for a bit. You don't have to let go of your God, just let him know you're your own person.

LordPenguin
October 4th, 2006, 04:58 AM
Yeah, I hate to pick on a single group, but Christians really do piss me off when they do that 'forcing their opinions on you' thing. And they DO do that. If you don't believe me, watch this video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5479410612081345878

Yes. Bananas. Believe it.

Shiggety
October 4th, 2006, 05:15 AM
The moment you said banana, I knew exactly which video you were talking about. I seriously don't get it. He just proves evolution, not God. Thanks for posting the whole episode, i've only ever seen the banana thing.

The point where the guy in green is talking about absolute statements kills me. He says that to say "There is gold in China" he doesn't need absolute knowledge, he just needs a little knowledge. Is he not describing every Christian, ever? He just basically states that to be an athiest is being smarter than believing in God.

Just a question i'm asking myself while watching this whole thing: Can Christians truly believe, in all their arrogance, that God only rules over this one earth? I mean, he's got what, and ever-expanding universe with millions of billions of stars to keep tabs on. Unarguably, there is another, or even numerous planents with life on them, maybe even humans.

LordPenguin
October 4th, 2006, 05:18 AM
I seriously don't get it. He just proves evolution, not God.

Yeah, I love how he totally self-owns himself there.

And I bet 99% of the Chistians who watched it thought there was absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Shiggety
October 4th, 2006, 05:29 AM
And that's funny because I bet 100% of the athiests who watch it think it just proves what they think. It boggles my mind to think that they make so many amazing points for the other side. It almost sounds like a grade school debate at one point.

Final thought, then I leave: You can use all the metaphors you like. All I know is that when a Chimpanzee claps, it sure looks a helluva lot like a human clapping. And a bannana turns green and black because it has a life cycle ya doof, not because it's like a fucking traffic light.

Jillamanda
October 4th, 2006, 07:59 AM
I haven't got time to watch the vid right now, but if it's the banana thing I think it is, the one that allegedly proves Intelligent Design, there is only one response, and that is:

SO HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN PINEAPPLES? :wink:

Nameless
October 4th, 2006, 10:47 AM
It's kind of ironic, really, when either side of an argument can watch the same video and think it proves their point.


SO HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN PINEAPPLES? :wink:
:lol:

Fallen Hero
October 4th, 2006, 03:03 PM
Ok, Decided to de-bunk the video a little.

Roughly 6 minutes in he says that when he looks at creation he knows there is a creator.

- Well, no shit. However, since I do not believe in creation, I do not see a creator, not a logical arguement. Further, bible does not provide sound evidence.

After that there is the car metaphor.

1. The modern design for a car is the result of the evolution of the design.
2. He only proved that the car pulls some parallels with nature.

Is it intelligent to say that this car has no maker, that it just happened?

Ummm, no. That is just plain silly. Is it intelligent to say that a baby has a maker? In a way yes, but generally no. Sure, the baby does develop and get nutrients in the mother from the sperm and egg of the parents, but does the mother put the baby together herself? No, she makes it as much as the lumber supplier directly makes the house. The baby develops by its self. Not the best analogy, I'm working on that. -- THIS IS REALLY NOT CLEAR, SORRY --

We see order in creation? Sure, some, I also see a lot of chaos.

Wait, I know everything now? Cool. (10 min in, really shitty analogy)

Hmmm, so the goal is to make us agnostic. No. I am certain that based on the sample of all that knowledge that there is no god.

approx. 16 min
1.That athiest did not really swing his beliefs.
2. By that basis everyone that was not locked in box with no human contact and lacking the ability to speak or think, is going to hell. Also all people that are married as they had to have lusted for someone before they got around to marrying them. Thus All people of this Earth are going to hell.

3. the logic after he 'justifies' himself makes no sense what so ever.

By swinging from logic to attack the conscience? Yes, that would be side-stepping the question.

Not a good idea to look at the logic. Hmmmm.. that just explains it all. I knew logic was pulling me away from 'salvation'. Stupid logic, I should stop thinking about things. That rabbit hole is there Alice, the wonderland of athiesm is waiting at the bottom.

Why the fuck is the surgeon working on the dandruff in the first place? Worst analogy ever, and since when is logic and thinking to be dandruff in equivalent significance?

Do you not love how the second athiest interview is edited? Hmmmm wonder what is missing.

At this point may I note that 1. I would have expressed joy at going to Hell. 2. He's going to Hell, because he does not believe in Allah, or because he believes in the false prophet Jesus.

He likely would counter that with 'Well I do not follow that religion.' or something along those lines to which I would respond 'And I do not believe in your religion.' or something else along that line.

Does anyone else get the distinct feeling that all these people would like to punch the interviewer in the face?


Admit that we could be wrong about god? Back at you.

Ok, I just repeated exactly what he said, god didn't answer.

Wait, so the whole point in the end was to sell a really biased and possibly offensive book?

Bible? Comprehensive? What.

Add to this at will. Thesists, bring it on.

Shiggety
October 4th, 2006, 04:40 PM
Admit that we could be wrong about god? Back at you.

Great point.

About 10:30 in, Moustache Man starts talking about his atheist test. "How many grains of sand are on all the Hawaiian islands?" and all that crap. The point he makes is stupid. "There are some people who think they know everything."? Are you serious? Do YOU know how many grains of sand there are? No. Absolutely not. No one can. So the point he's actually proving is that even though he doesn't know everything either, he feels that he can tell us what is right or wrong?

Is it just me, or does the first interview seem completely staged? I mean, the interviewer is talking waaaayyy too fast. I mean, he never even pauses to think about what he's going to say next.

The one point in the video that absolutely flattened me with laughter is the point where Green Shirt Devout Athiest Turned Devout Christian Guy is talking about how if you follow the way of Christ, he'll reveal himself to you. He says, direct quote: Well, Mr. or Mrs. Atheist, there is absolute proof. God says that he will show himself to you personally if you'll do one thing. Listen to what Jesus said in the Bible: "He that has my commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves me, and he that loves me shall be loved by my father and I will love him and will manifest myself to him. So here Jesus is saying that he will manifest or reveal himself to you if you will obey his commandments. Now does that mean that Jesus will um, appear before you're eyes or you'll hear his voice? No" NO! EXACTLY! He won't. And this is "absolute proof"? Give me a break. My second thought is Man, Christians hate gays and yet Jesus is basically throwing out loving like there's no tommorow? Like, I just want to be friends, Jesus. Damn.

Googler
October 4th, 2006, 09:44 PM
And that's funny because I bet 100% of the athiests who watch it think it just proves what they think. It boggles my mind to think that they make so many amazing points for the other side. It almost sounds like a grade school debate at one point.

Final thought, then I leave: You can use all the metaphors you like. All I know is that when a Chimpanzee claps, it sure looks a helluva lot like a human clapping. And a bannana turns green and black because it has a life cycle ya doof, not because it's like a fucking traffic light.

lol makes alot of sense now.

Carnifex
October 4th, 2006, 10:27 PM
*Edit* This post is REALLY long, i broke down every bit of the episode.

Right im gonna pause as i watcht this and comment. I hate this show so hard.

Getting through the speech about percentage of america blah blah blah, athiesm is the opposite of intellectual yada yada yada (not even worth criticising).

He starts off by using his ridiculous soda can argument. "A big bang just happened" he emphasises how we dont know why it happened, pretty much the same way as we dont know why god created us or why there is a god. Then he describes a soda can just magically creating itself over time "paint just falls from the sky". Your right that is insulting my intelligence its as bad as the waters of the flood dropping from "the windows of heaven". Ray here is using an example of something that cannot occur naturally to prove that nothing can occur naturally. Evolution is a complicated process that neither of them understand so they resort to similes and analogys to confuse those who also dont understand evolution.

Oh here we go "If something is made, it has to have a maker". Hehe well done ray comfort, good argument there. Throw these in aswell "if something is driven it must have a driver", "if something is a triangle it must have three sides". I think we can all agree that if something is designed there must be a designer. I think we can all agree that 2 + 2 =4. He however makes no points as to how he knows everything is designed or made, he just assumes they are.

And then he brings out the banana (you like those dont you reverand mario :wink: ). Lets list the points why this argument is stupid.

1) Firstly out of billions of worldy objects, one seems to suit us quite well. OH UKNOWABLE UNIVERSE.
2) Natural bananas are hideous, difficult to open and in most case poisonous. In fact the ones we buy from supermarkets are clones of bananas we have created (us human things) from selective breeding. The only ones playing god here Mr Comfort, is us. How ignorant can you be.
3) The coconut is also a nice sort of food. I cant open one without a fucking drill.
4) What about poisonous berries? God setting traps for us? They look good to eat and they kill us.
5) The banana is also perfectly suited to certain monkeys, their hand shape etc. Man we are similar to monkeys, i wonder why?
6) The banana is quite well shaped to pleasure ones anus with. I think we can see gods intentions here (although the "nonslip surface" may chafe a little, ouch)

And he says some stupid things about it "it has a non-slip surface" yes your right i was truly baffled when i picked one up and it didnt proceed to fly out of my hand like most things???? "The contents dont squirt in your face" thank the blessed lord for stopping solid banana from defying physics and jumping at me. "the wrapper, which is biodegradable" why is that amazing? All your really doing is showing us how naturally different it is from manufactured objects (the ones that require a manufacturer).

I think ive destroyed that argument.

Then we talk about the eye, something so complex it couldnt have evolved over billions of years (Unless of course you understand evolutionary biology which has explained many times that it is very probable). They seem to quote a lot of scientific discoveries about the eye, such as how many photo-sensitive cells it has, which seems hypocritical since they oppose almost the ENTIRE scientific community over the FACT of evolution. They then quote Charles Darwin, our God, the man who can say no wrong. WAKE UP CREATIONISTS what darwin says isnt gospel, we dont listen to one person and hold them correct forever unlike you. Darwin was religious and just coming to terms with biology that even he yet didnt understand, of course hes gonna say incorrect stuff. Evolutionary theory has come along a bit since him.

They then say einstein believed in the existance of God. I thought this was entirely speculative over some of his colourful use of the word god, as we all sometimes use. i could be wrong though.

Then then say how they will prove the existance of god. No-one has ever done it but sure, im sure prettyboy and McMoustache will get a bit further. Here we go.
"when I look at a building, how can i know there was a builder" - LOGIC, remember that? He says we cant, smell or see or touch this builder. Erm? what? im sure if we tracked him down then yes we could, unlike god. He then says that the same principle of a "building must have a builder" works with god. He then makes his stupid statement "When i look at creation" which implies there is a creator, he has no actual grounds to call the world we live in "creation". I mean how long ago did the design argument fail logically?

Then we keep comparing NATURALLY OCCURING THINGS, to things that cannot naturally occur. NONE OF US EVER SAY EVER THAT A CAR JST CAME INTO EXISTANCE, much like we never say "people appeared", "A monkey gave birth to human" etc etc.

And as i pause the video at this moment i am laughing my head off. Mike Moustache just said "i believe in physical fitness, as you can see from my physique" hehe, you look like colonel sanders geeky younger brother.

Then they talk about absolute statements. Apparantly to say "there is no god" we have to have absolute knowledge about that subject. Fair enough nancy i will agree to that. Apart from they seem to be able to prove the existance of god, something they do not have absolute knowledge about. Then then bring up the claim "there is no gold in china" and explain that to know this we would have to life every rock etc. I find this a great argument AGAINST believing in god.

Think about it dumbasses. Here we have two assertions "there is no gold in china" and "there is gold in china". To prove the negative we would have to have ridiculous knowledge of China we would have to lift every rock and could be disproved if we found a single piece of gold. To prove that there was gold in china, all you would have to do is find a single piece of gold in china. The negative is almost impossible to prove, while the positive is easy. If we apply this to "God exists" we can be the same, it is almost impossible to prove he doesnt (actually impossible to prove he doesnt), and hould technically be easy to prove he exists, all we would need is one piece of evidence of his existance? And yet even though theism has the odds on their side, we fail to see any evidence of god.

This whole absolute statement argument is ridiculing the claim "no god exists" but apparantly doesnt apply to "god exists". He then has his atheist test. He says he will ask an atheist do you know how many grains of sand are on some beaches, to which we have to answer no. He then says that if we knew 1% of everything to be known, isnt it possible that the 99% of stuff we dont know contains evidence that god exists. Sure thats true, you seem to know the evidence hidden in that 99% i dont know, could you tell it me? Maybe in that 99% of stuff we dont know there is strong evidence agsint god? You know like evolution. Although thats hidden in the 100% of the knowledge about the world you dont know.

They then say that having limited knowlegde makes us agnostic. Well that rules out being able to logically deduce things, if we feel a supreme being is illogical then we can safely say that there will be no evidence. They say that its like looking at a building and saying we dont know if someone built it. Hey you ruled out logical deduction not us. If we used your theory you would have to admit to limited knowledge and admit you dont know if the building had a builder.

WE THEN INTERVIEW AN ANTHIEST. They found one! :lol:

They ask him why he is an atheist? He wants proof. Fair enough. Do you have a car? yes he does. do you believe it happened by accident? blahblahblah same car argument. The atheist then changes his mind. Well he doesnt change his mind, he respects your beliefs and doesnt openly confront you.

They then uses biblical commandments to prove that the guy is going to hell. The athiest then beats him hands down.

So are you happy your going to hell? I dont care i dont believe in that.
If i jumped off a building saying i didnt believe in gravity would that be reasonable? No gravity exists
How do you know you cant see it? You can test it though
And your testing god!

That changes the meaning of test really, he meant scientifically test it.

He then says that he is a good guy and dont think he'l go to hell. He then makes us notice, THE PERSON IS TRYING TO JUSTIFY HIMSELF LOLZ. yes apparantly justifying oneself is a sin? huh? what wuh? He then spouts shit about jesus dieing for us, which we have no proof of. Is it me or does the atheist have the smug look on his face of someone who knows he is winning the argument.

We go back to Rayman and Kirk and they tell us this is how to make an atheist backslide. Yes by your definition of backsliding you have succeeded, where justifying one self is a sign you are losing an argument. How stupid are you ray!

We also establish that there are no atheists, only agnostics since you cannot know that god does not exist. Well by that logic remember you are agnostic aswell ray, we cannot know if there is a god.

Kirk then puts the icing on the cake by saying we have to swing from the intellect. It is not wise to stay in the intellect. Apparntly if you wrestle with someone intellectually it will waste all your time. Of course it will you fool you will lose? How can we reason with people who decide to bypass intellectual argument. Damn these guys piss me off. We apparantly need to get to the heart. Then they say "a surgeon isnt going to waste all his time with your dandruff when he needs to get to the heart." What the hell does that even mean? No of course a surgeon wont mess with your dandruff. I doubt he "bypassed the intellect" when he was training to fix your heart, and im sure he knows it as somethin else as what i think your refering to (the soul?).

Then they get pwned by this cool atheist with a beard. He mocks them and its funny. I dont need to criticise their logic here its just self-explanatory. They some how prove the bible by using its objective morality? huh whu? fu?

He does say in the interview, if you research the bible like you would a thesis or something, you will find the claims they make are true. What? oh okay, sure. Yes it all makes sense now. Thats why we have thousand of peer-reviewd historical and scientific papers on the innerancy of the bible and not a huge amount of criticism and contradictions, this isnt some random book like the quran!

Then they interview a woman whose a couple of clowns short of a circus. Does kirk flirt with her? I think he does. I THINK HE DOES. naughty kirk. This argument doesnt really add much, he just asks her please believe in god pretty girl.

Then kirk goes and proves everything he said about absolute proof certainly wrong. He first talks about how stubborn us atheists are for not believing. This comes from the person that doesnt believe in evolution which im sure even the fucking pope has accepted now, evolution doesnt even really count against god, maybe genesis though. He then quotes the bible about the absolute proof we have that god exists. He says the proof is that if we obey the gospel Jesus will show himself to us. Well okay if this means that i have to obey all commandments then fuck im screwed, cuz that means i cant look at women with lust. I think i could just about do the others, i havnt killed anyone in almost weeks. The line he reads say tha as long as we love jesus christ.... yadayadayada and there it fails. Love of something we have no concious control over, we cannot chose it. So we do not have access to this absolute proof, which turns out in the end is that he will change our hearts? not hear him or see him, thats too much for an omnipotent god.

He says accept that we cannot know god and just obey christ. I can apply this to any religion kirk.

Ray i hate you. Im sorry and im sure im failing your god challenge for hating you but yeh i hate you, with my very soul. I hate your fucking guts.

Kirk, you look dumb enough for me not to care about you. You go boy do what you think is right. I cant stay mad at you.

So there we go. Fuck that was a long post.

Shiggety
October 5th, 2006, 03:24 AM
Seriously. You for president. Vice-President? Atheist with the beard.

On a random side-note... I've been racking my brain to try and figure out what Ray Comfort's (who isn't comforting in the least) accent is. It's like, Australiwiglish. (Australian/Kiwi/English) When he's talking about buildings: "When I look at a building, how do I know that there was a buildurggh? Can't see him blah blah blah buildurggh. The building is absolute proof there was a buildurrggh"

Another quick thought: Ray keeps saying that "a building is proof there was a builder" but by saying "a" he's implying that only one person designed and constructed that structure. I don't care in what society or time period humans have lived in, all a building is proof of is there were a whole troop of people working to make that building happen.

LordPenguin
October 5th, 2006, 04:47 AM
They then say einstein believed in the existance of God. I thought this was entirely speculative over some of his colourful use of the word god, as we all sometimes use. i could be wrong though.

Yes, Einstein did believe in god. Einstein also had trouble tying his shoes.

Fallen Hero
October 5th, 2006, 09:56 AM
They then say einstein believed in the existance of God. I thought this was entirely speculative over some of his colourful use of the word god, as we all sometimes use. i could be wrong though.

Yes, Einstein did believe in god. Einstein also had trouble tying his shoes.

Don't insult Einstein's intelligence, we all know he was possibly the smartest human of the century.

Shiggety
October 5th, 2006, 02:54 PM
Don't insult Einstein's intelligence, we all know he was possibly the smartest human of the century.

Last century. The title is up for grabs now.

Nameless
October 6th, 2006, 03:25 AM
Don't insult Einstein's intelligence, we all know he was possibly the smartest human of the century.

Last century. The title is up for grabs now.

I nominate Method-X. :D

Fallen Hero
October 6th, 2006, 02:44 PM
Don't insult Einstein's intelligence, we all know he was possibly the smartest human of the century.

Last century. The title is up for grabs now.

I nominate Method-X. :D

Wow, I really did not stop to check the date there, it appears my disses are not the only things stuck in the last century.

emaletk
October 7th, 2006, 07:56 AM
Alright, I've just discovered Googlism, and the first thing I did after reading it's proofs and doctrines is check out the hate mail. From there I was linked to this forum and this was the first thread I clicked on. After watching that video I was actually kind of startled/alarmed by how crazy temple-of-doom "DRINK THE BLOOD" that video was. It was basically a training video for confusing people and manipulating their minds. Whether or not it was effective is a subject for debate (and admittedly unlikely), but look at the way it was structured. Look at the way everything is laid out and they address the most common arguements directly and give evidence that somebody that was looking for comfort might just buy into. A lot of psychology went into parts of it. I was actually watching it with a friend of mine that believes in God (I personally don't, and it's not an issue) and he was extremely irritated by their Red Scare bullshit tactics.

But seriously, after reading all the posts on this thread, I had to create an account here just so I could log in and say: "BAW-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!" That whole video I was wishing some asshole would come up to me and try that KGB doublespeak bullshit on an agnostic that started as a Christian. The whole point of this unneccessarily long-ass post was to say kudos for the intellectual bitching delivered to Ray Comfort by certain members of these forums. You know who you are. You (especially the guy that made the crack about what'shisname and his physical fitness) have released many endorphins into my system with the debilitating laughter this has all given me.

MeTHoD-X
October 7th, 2006, 08:45 AM
Don't insult Einstein's intelligence, we all know he was possibly the smartest human of the century.

Last century. The title is up for grabs now.

I nominate Method-X. :D

Bitch. Sucking up ain't getting you shit! :wink:

GeoffBoulton
October 7th, 2006, 12:12 PM
Never mind the banana thing, in India people are eaten by tigers on a reasonably regular basis. After all, humans are:

the perfect size for a mid-morning snack.
have a distinctive smell so that we are easy to find.
have a nice soft outer skin so that the tiger's claws can get a good grip and don't damage the tiger's teeth.
have lots of nice chunky, meaty bits
go all horrible and gooey after we die so the tigers know we are past our sell-by date

Wow, I'm converted it's the tigers who are the chosen ones and we were just designed as tiger food

P.S. ditto lions, leopards, sharks, etc. ;)

Fallen Hero
October 7th, 2006, 03:42 PM
On another note, he needed a break running ten feet, or 3.33 m. So much for physically fit.

Nanashi
October 7th, 2006, 04:21 PM
I like how they found the most ignorant atheist on the street; rather than going to a known atheist who would totally ruin him.

Edit: Carnifex beat me to it; I posted this while reading through his post... [meanie >.<]

I also like how they say: 'Well, if you can't prove there is no god, then you aren't an Atheist, you're an agnostic'.. [and they are so smug about it, like they just pwned someone :P]

Well, Atheist is defined as "one who believes that there is no deity"

And a theist (Not to be confused with Atheist ^_~) is one who believes in the existance of a god or gods.

So, by definition it has nothing to do with if you [b]know there is a god, but if you believe there is a god..

But anyhow, by their own logic that admit they.. everyone is agnostic? (a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable;)

Carnifex
October 9th, 2006, 02:02 PM
They then say einstein believed in the existance of God. I thought this was entirely speculative over some of his colourful use of the word god, as we all sometimes use. i could be wrong though.

Yes, Einstein did believe in god. Einstein also had trouble tying his shoes.

Einstein did not believe in God, or at least not in any god worshipped by any organised religion (thought id bring it up since im reading the god delusion by richard dawkins and he mentions it).

"i dont try to imagine a personal God, it suffices to stand in awe at the structure of the world, insofar as it allows our inadequate senses to appreciate it."
Eintsein

Jillamanda
October 9th, 2006, 09:46 PM
They say 'seek and ye shall find'. I wonder if anyone's ever gone looking for God and not found him....I've never gone looking because I don't believe he's there. It's like Agnostics just put their deities on hold, until they're needed. And I think 'need' is the operative word. If you 'need' God, you'll find him. This could be where Christians feel the need to save us. At some point in their lives, they have 'needed' God, and, as the Bible says, they found him. They then delude themselves into thinking that God saved them from whatever the situation was (rather than giving themselves credit). They then come to the conclusion that we all need saving. We ask them what we need saving from, and they say 'our sins'. And that Jesus died for our sins.....

What fucking sins and how does Jesus being crucified 2000 years ago help anyway????? :evil: If he allowed himself to be crucified because of sins I was going to commit in 2000 years time, he's sillier than I thought he was in the first place. And if he thought way back then that I'd owe him for something, NOW, he was most definitely mistaken.....and anyway, he didn't die. Whadya think Easter's all about, for Google's sake!!!

Fallen Hero
October 10th, 2006, 08:13 PM
I think Jill is right, about the needing thing. I know someone who has gone through a hell of a lot of shit, he 'found' christianity and he thinks it helped him through, but does not think anyone can be saved, without starting it themselves, also he is really lax about his religion.

sv3nn
October 10th, 2006, 08:18 PM
i respect the fact that many people use faith to get through hard times. i'm completely ok with that, just do your worshipping over there, and not near me ;) some people need something to beleive in. atheists do not.

SyBerWoLff
October 11th, 2006, 03:08 AM
A bannanna.... I think they've sunk BEYOND groveling for believers...

And about the "How do I know theres a BUILDER for a BUILDING"....... okay... now explain Stonehenge... was that built by GOD? Gasp! That's their explanation for everything, That's OUR proof that there is no god. Because Humans, by Law, make up stories to prove things they don't know. "Mommy why is *insert stuff here*"..... Uhoh mommy doesn't know... "Because of god!" Bah! I don't mean to be bashing them, I respect peoples beliefs but seriously, If you look at it that's all their doing, making up an excuse.

Erasmus
October 11th, 2006, 04:34 PM
Einstein did not believe in God, or at least not in any god worshipped by any organised religion (thought id bring it up since im reading the god delusion by richard dawkins and he mentions it).

"i dont try to imagine a personal God, it suffices to stand in awe at the structure of the world, insofar as it allows our inadequate senses to appreciate it."
Eintsein

He also said:

“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.”

Idem
October 12th, 2006, 11:53 PM
Umm, I'm sorry, but many of you seem to be making overgeneralizations about Christians and Christianity.

Most of what you see of Christians on television/teh internets, or ones that hold power, are complete fanatics. They do not represent the majority, and are usually quite rich and separated from the real world.

The same happens with commercialized atheism, for instance, perhaps, Penn and Teller: Bullshit (They make good points, but I've seen some where I think "Wow, what pretentious asshats!)
Don't really know too much about commercialized atheism, perhaps someone else could enlighten me.

Anyway, I belong to the LDS Church (Officially)
My experience with the church is positive, I learned good moral values from them as a child, and I respect them.

Enough of my blathering. Me=a bit tight, might sound kinda weird.

Alice Shade
October 13th, 2006, 07:19 PM
There is nothing wrong with Christianity, per ce. As well, as there is nothing wrong with any other religion.

As long as said religion is not rammed down our throats with poker. Main point of objection here is NOT the Christian beliefs, per ce - it`s the fact, that Christians are violently intolerable of any other belief system/phylosophy.

Look closer at how the Christianity is promoted. "Join us, or you`ll go to hell!"
Compare to Buddhism "Feel free to join and reach enlightment, if you wish."

You may notice, that lion`s share of bashing is on Christianity here, yes, but there`s a small issue of Christians slamming all other religions about 98% of time. (I`m NOT touching Islam - those guys are business, and they won`t even bother arguing, they`ll just gut you like a pig, if it gets to that..)

Jillamanda
October 13th, 2006, 09:24 PM
As long as said religion is not rammed down our throats with poker. Main point of objection here is NOT the Christian beliefs, per ce - it`s the fact, that Christians are violently intolerable of any other belief system/phylosophy.

I dunno, it's a pretty silly religion too.

Alice Shade
October 14th, 2006, 11:01 AM
Silly, yes. From our point of view.

Each religion is silly at some angle.

However, as long as it`s just person being silly, I believe it`s his/her own right to do so. If I decide, that it is a will of heavens for me to wear clown`s suit everyday - it`s OK, because I`m only ruining my hair, skin and reputation. But if I`ll start attacking other people, because they do NOT wear clown suits (No matter, how. Physically, verbally, suggestibly - all the same,), then it`s entirely different situation.

In a way, most of Christianity bashing stems exactly from this point.
Buddhists, Zoroastrites, Krishnaites, Confucianists, hell, even Islamists - they all wear their clown suits, and don`t bother people, who don`t. (Well, Islamists believe they get in heaven, by killing those who don`t, but that`s a bit of a different story. )
Christians, on other way, just exuberate hate towards anyone not in clown suit. The question is, WHY? Why should clowns fight goths, for example? Can you fathom this happening? But it does happen.
I believe, that the origin of this lies in the origins of Christianity. Unlike most religions - Christianity was originally slave religion. Thought up by slaves to console them in their hard labors. Now, I have absolutely nothing against slaves, but slave lifestyle means slave way of thinking - which had reflected on Christianity greatly.
Most other Religions look down on unreligious people with some measure of pity and disdain. Christianity looks on them with unrelenting envy. This was ingrained in the core of religion, from the very beginning - for how can a slave not envy freedom? (And yes, those ages were a bit simpler ones. Free person COULD find food and build shelter without assistance. He/she also COULD join some community and settle down just like that.)

All the religions strive to bring their followers on a certain level. But while for Judaism, for example, this level is set by king, in Christianity, it is set by slave.

Is there something else to be said against or in favor of Christianity, people?

Googler
October 14th, 2006, 04:36 PM
I agree, I saw these elementary school kids walking home from the bus one day telling eachother they were going to hell because one was Catholic, and the other was Christian. I just can't believe someones parents teach their childrent like that.

Fallen Hero
October 14th, 2006, 08:39 PM
I agree, I saw these elementary school kids walking home from the bus one day telling eachother they were going to hell because one was Catholic, and the other was Christian. I just can't believe someones parents teach their childrent like that.

That and that is wrong, Catholics are Christians also, the fundies do not think so, but they do not believe in science also.