Christians, answer this?

[Tom93]

so, you guys believe God is all knowing, all good and all powerful.

Can you please tell me why?

God cannot be all good as he lets evil exist.
God cannot be all powerful if he cannot stop evil or if he doesn't want too he cannot be all good.
God cannot be all knowing if he doesn't know it is happening and once again, if he knows it is happening but doesn't or cannot stop it then again he is not all powerful or good.

Therefore God is not all good, powerful and knowing.

An other thing, why is there so many contradictions in the Bible. if every word is true then it clearly doesn't make sense.

Christians believe God gives us free will to do what we want yes? but you also believe he has our lives already planned.

What about the unmoved mover? E.G. what starts it all off? You say to non religious people how did the earth start? if there is nothing then how can you build something out of nothing? Yet how did God get here?

[OfficerFriendly]

newb
xtains are armed with an armful of nonsense

[TheDoc]

Interesting questions! I actually hadn't intended to sign up, but I saw this and had to answer.

1. Incorrect. A distinction must be made between the Creator and his Creations. You see, in theological theory at least, when the Universe was first created it was all good, with the potential for evil should humans choose it. We'll get to that in just a moment under "all-knowing/all-powerful", but for know we'll just skim that bit. To say then that because His creation has taken on attributes of evil He must be evil is a fallacy, it is the same as saying that since Airplanes are now used primarily as platforms of death and destruction the Wright Brothers must have been bloodthirsty monsters. You assume that all details of Creation are exactly as God likes them, which leads us to point 2.

2. There is a difference between all-powerful and consistently exercising that power. While God does intervene in supernatural matters, most of the "evil" of this world is man-made. I believe it was Neil Gaiman who once outlined humorously in "Good Omens" how mankind has created many concepts far more evil than anything the Devil would ever think of due to our inherently curious nature. You see, when humanity was created, we were not created as simple servants or autonomatons. We were created as His children, in His image, and He gave us the ability to make choices and decisions. As we should all well know, however, choices always bear a consequence. The sad fact of the matter is that humanity is capable of solving the majority of its problems because we caused most of them, and we perpetuate them. That's why God doesn't intervene: If He did, what would be the point of it all? If God fixed everything in our lives, what would the point of existence be? Without struggle, there is no triumph, and without the possibility of defeat, there is no true victory. This ties into point 3.

3. It is not that God cannot stop wrong from happening. As we have already seen, wrong happens because of the choices of man. Nobody does wrong for no reason, everyone has a chain of events attached to them. Is it just for God to punish one man for the crimes wrought against him by another? If we asked for supernatural intervention in all our problems, we would eventually find that same intervention reaped down upon our heads. Also, God tried that tactic before, did He not? Between the Flood, Soddom and Gamorrah, and others, we see ample examples of supernatural intervention, yet what did humanity gain? Nothing. The Jewish nation became arrogant and prideful. These trials do not exist to show us the optimal strategy, nor do they show some hidden nature of an Angry, Vengeful God. Rather, they are lessons to us: Violence and shows of force are pointless. Learn from this, and move on. These teachings carry a double-meaning though, in the way that God also shows that when others wish to enact violence upon you, you are not to merely take it passively. "Turn the other cheek" was never meant as a stance of abuse and agony, but rather as a way of conflict resolution. Rather than confronting those that hate you with hate, show them why that hate is unfounded. When it is only your own life that hangs in the balance, then make the call yourself: Stay if you shall stay, flee if you shall flee. This situation does change dramatically if others are at risk, as the protection of others is the number one goal of a Christian.

Now, let's talk about contradictions. What, specifically, do you mean? If you mean the differences between the Old and New Testament, that's not a contradiction. The Bible specifically discusses in Hebrews and Jeremiah that the relationship between God and the Israelites of old(referred to as the "Old Covenant") is completely different than the relationship established with all of humanity through Christ(known as the "New Covenant"). Why? Because the Old Covenant was needed for the Israelites to survive. It was black-and-white, limited-enforcement, no BS. The Israelites needed their rules to be crystal clear, because ambiguity tends to lead to loopholes and destructive behavior. This eventually came about anyway, but when it did it was in clear violation to God's "contract", if you will, with the nation of Israel, and thus subject to punishment. No such contract exists today, because such a contract was inherently flawed and God knew it(again, referenced in Hebrews, can get the specific verse if needed). The Israelites desired that contract, however, and thus it was made on their own volition, and broken of their own free will. There is also a misconception that every word of today's Bible must be true, due to a verse within 2nd Timothy, if memory serves. This is incorrect, the verse within 2nd Timothy refers only to the historical accounts given in the Old Testament and the Early Gospels(Matthew, Mark, Luke, John), as the rest of the Bible did not exist at that time. What we know as most of the New Testament was only a series of letters with varying others and recipients that were later found by the Council of Trent and canonized. I personally do not treat anything beyond John as infallible. I do believe in Revelations, but mostly as a work that cannot yet be understood that will be revealed in time, not something to make predictions off of. It's more a sort of survivors manual for when crap hits the fan, rather than a guidebook to the future, imho.

God does not have our lives "all planned out." Any Christian who says this needs to read their Bible's more. This is a very common misconception, and one of my personal pet peeves. It is true that God knows what we will do, but not because He is forcing us to do so. Rather, God has a Non-Linear relationship with time, everything is relative to Him. Mankind's creation happens at the same moment as its eventual ascension into the Heavenly Kingdom, in His eyes, and He acts as He sees fit at given moments. Prophecy is not God ordaining something will happen because He says so, but rather because He has already seen it happen, and has already said it was going to. It is very hard for us to comprehend as 3 Dimensional creatures who have a very limited grasp of Time, but quite simple for a being existing on the borders if not beyond the borders of Reality.

The question of the Unmoved Mover is a bit trickier, and I don't believe anyone atheistic or religious has a truly good response for it. I call it the Matryoshka Puzzle: Is God merely the Creation of another more powerful being who rules over a collection of similar God-like beings across several planes of reality, and is super-ceded by yet another being who rules over a similar set of beings, so on and so forth into infinity? Are we unconsciously the Dieties of our own private universe that we influence with our every action? I don't know. I think with our current understanding of Reality, we won't find the answer. Personally, I'll just wait until I'm dead to find out. If atheism is correct and there is truly nothing waiting, then I shan't care anyway. If God is waiting for me on the other side, then I'll ask Him, and if the best He can give me is a confused shrug, the so be it. After all, what does it truly alter about our existence if reality is one giant mobius strip of dietical powers? Very little, indeed. Religion has always been something of personal preference and comfort, not practicality, and the only true ills of religion are when we try to make it as such outside of a basic moral framework. Let our super-natural be super-natural, and our natural be natural. Some of us enjoy the beauty of God's Creation through that natural, while others enjoy the marvels of evolution through it. To each their own, I say, and may the two co-exist forever and a day! To attempt discount and discredit each other is only to invite the bitter religious conflicts we all hold in contempt, and I believe I speak for the majority of rationale beings when I say that those may keep themselves locked within the dark ages, never to bother reasonable folk again.

[Basswp87]

But remember, if the bible was made by man, and not God, God "knowing" that we WILL ascend into heaven is actually just wishful thinking.

But we might, if we're good and smart about it!

[alexinmancs]

Typical christian response. Use information made up, either from the bible or by religious apologists, to counter argue. If TheDoc wants to believe in the g o d just so he can have a chance just in case there is an afterlife then so be it but admitting that there is a chance atheists might be right automatically makes him at least agnostic. Oops, I guess when you die mate you wouldn't have done things properly so the big man will not give you what you have been told :P

[tagnostic]

anyone who lives their life
for fear of what happens in the afterlife
lives their life in fear
seems a funny way to prepare for heaven

[Will.]

so, you guys believe God is all knowing, all good and all powerful.

Can you please tell me why?

God cannot be all good as he lets evil exist.
If there is no evil to compare good to, what is the good of it? We would squander our lives.

God cannot be all powerful if he cannot stop evil or if he doesn't want too he cannot be all good.

God created man, why is this important? God gave man the choice, he gave man prespective and free will, and allowed man to choose him. This pissed off Lucifer for he had no choice, he turns on God. Moral of the story, don't have kids.

God cannot be all knowing if he doesn't know it is happening and once again, if he knows it is happening but doesn't or cannot stop it then again he is not all powerful or good.
God cast man from the Garden, ^^; why would he?

Therefore God is not all good, powerful and knowing.

An other thing, why is there so many contradictions in the Bible. if every word is true then it clearly doesn't make sense.

Christians believe God gives us free will to do what we want yes? but you also believe he has our lives already planned.

What about the unmoved mover? E.G. what starts it all off? You say to non religious people how did the earth start? if there is nothing then how can you build something out of nothing? Yet how did God get here?

Because if you believe in that sort of thing, its all you have.

[Will.]

So as a final statement. Who umongst us has the given right to feel as if we can tell one another how to live a moral life?

[tagnostic]

what exactly is a right?
and if it is given
by any entity
it would be
a privilege
not a right

as for moral
who gets to define it?
morals are a matter of perspective
everyone has them
everyone is sure they're universal
yet everyones differ and are
mutually exclusatory

who's to say what is
and isn't right?
:shrug:

[Dr-Shade]

what exactly is a right?
and if it is given
by any entity
it would be
a privilege
not a right

as for moral
who gets to define it?
morals are a matter of perspective
everyone has them
everyone is sure they're universal
yet everyones differ and are
mutually exclusatory

who's to say what is
and isn't right?
:shrug:


Too right.... might just be time to go bush and wait for society to collapse :icon_lol: :icon_lol:

[tagnostic]

wow!!!
good to cya
Doc...

next question

whats the difference between
morals and ethics?

[Dr-Shade]

Hahaha....

Yea, just finished an epic battle with my ISP...


So now i have net again :icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:

[tagnostic]

rofl
i know the drill

they don't know crap
except
didya pay?

they have a real problem
with linux
i keep telling them i don't need
their startup disk,
its winblows, mac
they keep saying i gotta install it

thanks but i'll pass on the cookies

somehow it works without their stuff

they're digging up the yard right now
can't figure out why it works
theres a 500' orange cord running
from my place, around the neighbors
and into another neighbors yard,
they say they had nothing to do with it
don't know how it works,
but as long as it is,
would i keep paying

whatever

[Dr-Shade]

Hahahaha....


Yea, i was paying.... well, i tried to anyway :icon_redface:


They wouldnt accept my credit card for payment :icon_wut?: :icon_wut?:



So a year later (8 months after disconnection) they tried taking me to court for just over 6 grand....

I do love the fact that here in NZ, most ISP's dont send you a hard copy contract to sign... the judge let me off because there was no proof the verbal agreement i had with the company actually took place :icon_lol: :icon_lol:

Ergo, no contract= no agreement = NO BILL :icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:


I now have a hardcopy of my contract with another ISP.... I did have to twist their arm for it though :shrug:

[tagnostic]

rofl
makes me
want to get
a t-5 and be
my own ISP

[Dr-Shade]

rofl
makes me
want to get
a t-5 and be
my own ISP

Possibilities of international Services???


To say..... little ol' me on the ass end of the world??

Could do with some decent service down here:icon_lol:

[tagnostic]

hehehehe
that would be
an epic
cable run
:icon_lol:

[tagnostic]

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ADQDgPUQdrs/SvwYDENxtEI/AAAAAAAAAs4/fAbUqJH7gjI/s512/bo.jpg

[homeofmew]

if God is God he knows Good and Evil, but he/she can't do evil.
All knowing but incapable of evil.

Sadly Google can link you to virus sites D:

[tagnostic]

if he knows it
but doesn't do
anything about it
either he can't
or he won't
if the latter
that is condoning it
it is a crime of omission
which would make him
guilty of sin


Google can also link you
to anti-virus software
to rectify the problem
which is more than
god seems capable of

[Ashaya]

lol I have a christians answer this question...


If the bible was written 500 years after Jesus died, how do we know that the bible is accurate?

And dont give me the crap about the knowledge was passed down. Because only about 40% of the bible has actual manuscripts showing the history of it. and most of that can be proven false. or at least not proven true.


So yeah, answer it.