Equal Opportunity Education

[SyBerWoLff]

Does anyone know if theres a law(New York) stating that all students are required to get equal educational opportunities in public schools? I believe there is. I've been talking back and forth with my Guidance Councelor about an Internship program at our school. At first he told me it was avaliable to people with special "circumstances". I knew what he meant but just to clarify I asked him to elaborate and I got this response:

Well...you have to be a special education student to get the internship program...

How is that fair? And what's the use in that? From my previous email to him this is what I wrote:

...And I think that internships provide a better education than any school textbook will ever be able to provide. It's true that not all students know exactly what field of work they want to be in but A) Learning one trade is a heck of a lot better than learning all this useless, [trivial,] knowledge that's being taught in school today...

[Alice Shade]

Well, Syber, arguably you can`t get a job without acing all the trivial knowledge.

So no internship will help you, if you don`t know the bare basics of "trivial" knowledge.

[SyBerWoLff]

I learned all the bare basic trivial knowledge that I needed back in elementary school; now it's all crap.

[Googler]

I learned all the bare basic trivial knowledge that I needed back in elementary school; now it's all crap.

I could agree. Very rarely does anyone use the discriminant of the quadratic equation, etc in real life.

[Kokoba]

Tsssk, Syber.

Are you in special ed/gifted? (Or is that different in New York? I know in PA both the gifted and, er, special needs kids had IEPs and such, but perhaps they're separated in other states.) If not, then you're not legally entitled to any sort of special treatment, I'm pretty sure. Paperwork, official labels, and other forms of documentation are the only tools schools have to understand their students, and so they're sorted accordingly. If you feel like you SHOULD be in some program, make arrangements (or have a parent make arrangements) to be tested and sorted into it ASAP, so then you can be entitled to whatever.

Even if what you learn in high school is mostly useless, you probably won't get your point across by qualifying it as such. It's just confirming whatever misconception the guidance counselor has of you as the typical high school student: impatient, unwilling to compromise, etc. You'll have better chances of making high school not suck by meeting him at his level. Word things like "I'm looking for more challenges" or some crap like that. Be mature and calm, etc.

If he's still giving you static (because guidance counselors are the most useless facet of public education institutions), talk to teachers that are involved in the areas of internships you're looking at. English teachers for journalism, computer science teachers for programming, etc. Ask if they can help you out in getting the internship or just supplying you with the resources to go learn stuff on your own.

Ugh I don't mean to sound bitchy. Hopefully this helps.

[Fallen Hero]

I am special ed. Dislexic, cannot organize thoughts and something else I cannot recall that has to do with time management.. probably just general time management. Not too fun the class though, not overly useful for anyone without problems.

[Alice Shade]

I`m going to put it very simple.

Unless you don`t plan on working minimal wage jobs, college is essential (and even it does not guarantees you`d really get a decent job, just gives a chance to do so).

To get in college, you need to pass through school, and you WILL need all the things they teach in school to pass college.

Internship/special program means either that you are:

A) Coddled idiot, which in turn means, that you`ll be stuck with minimal wage supervised job, and obviously, no college.
B) Coddled genius, which in turn means, that you still need to be damn well in all school things, but be able to learn them in the "meanwhile", all while winning awards for school in math contests or on football field. This one means you WILL most probably get into college you want, but shirking on the school subjects will brand you as burnout, and land you in section A in end.


Neither thing is pretty, nor sought out, because either means being singled out, and thus, subjected to all the repricussions of being an outsider in school socium.

[SyBerWoLff]

If you feel like you SHOULD be in some program, make arrangements (or have a parent make arrangements) to be tested and sorted into it ASAP, so then you can be entitled to whatever.

How would I go about getting tested?

Even if what you learn in high school is mostly useless, you probably won't get your point across by qualifying it as such. It's just confirming whatever misconception the guidance counselor has of you as the typical high school student: impatient, unwilling to compromise, etc.

My guidance counselor knows I'm not like that and he knows that I'm extremely intelligent. I was trying to get into senior only classes in my freshman year but they wouldn't let me (that pissed me off big time, now i can't take psychology like I wanted)

You'll have better chances of making high school not suck by meeting him at his level. Word things like "I'm looking for more challenges" or some crap like that. Be mature and calm, etc. I've gotten several compliments on how calm and mature I can remain even in heated arguments and stuff. I told him that I felt I wasn't being challenged by that didn't have any effect.

If he's still giving you static (because guidance counselors are the most useless facet of public education institutions), talk to teachers that are involved in the areas of internships you're looking at. English teachers for journalism, computer science teachers for programming, etc. Ask if they can help you out in getting the internship or just supplying you with the resources to go learn stuff on your own.

I was thinking about talking to my biology teacher because shes the only teacher I really trust and she seems to know how to get things to happen and really cares about her students.

Ugh I don't mean to sound bitchy. Hopefully this helps.

Very helpful! Not bitchy at all! Thanks :D

I am special ed. Dislexic, cannot organize thoughts and something else I cannot recall that has to do with time management.. probably just general time management. Not too fun the class though, not overly useful for anyone without problems.

if "general time management" counts as special ed then I must be realllly special and just haven't been tested for anything.... For one I'm completely unorganized, I used to get help with that but that was only one year and then they didn't do anything about it.

I`m going to put it very simple.

Unless you don`t plan on working minimal wage jobs, college is essential (and even it does not guarantees you`d really get a decent job, just gives a chance to do so).

To get in college, you need to pass through school, and you WILL need all the things they teach in school to pass college.

I don't really need to goto college, in graphics arts all you need is a good portfolio (And I've gotten that response from professional graphics designers that are respected in their field)

Neither thing is pretty, nor sought out, because either means being singled out, and thus, subjected to all the repricussions of being an outsider in school socium.

I don't really care about what other people think of me; I'm in BOCES (Vocational school) already which is supposed to be for 'special' people so i'm picked on for that, I wore a straight jacket to school my freshman year when I was in my "emo" stage of life, I wear dog collars; I think I know how to deal with ridicule.

[Alice Shade]

No, you don`t.

Being singled out, Syber, means that you will be treated as single entity. And thus, often given shaft for mainstream sheep, which are easier to manage.

Portfolio is good, but you`d do jack without diploma. Go ask your notable people - each one has art diploma, I bet.

[SyBerWoLff]

No, you don`t.

Being singled out, Syber, means that you will be treated as single entity. And thus, often given shaft for mainstream sheep, which are easier to manage.

No shit, I don't need a definition on the word "single" i know what it means; trust me..

Portfolio is good, but you`d do jack without diploma. Go ask your notable people - each one has art diploma, I bet.

Out of 3, not one of them has a diploma and as I said have done very well so that screws over your argument there.

[Alice Shade]

No, it does not screws anything.

I`m telling you, that without diploma, you`ll have your tush kicked out more then you`d ever need it to, by every Tom, Dick and Harry, who think they are artists, because they can recite color wheel without looking into their notes more then once.

You didn`t ever looked for a real job. I did, more then once. If you still think you know better then me - well, more power to you. Go get that high-shot job, do better then me, and then come and say "Hey, I screwed over your argument."

[SyBerWoLff]

Go get that high-shot job, do better then me, and then come and say "Hey, I screwed over your argument."

I'd be happy too.

[Alice Shade]

Good luck.

When you do, feel free to tell everyone, that diploma isn`t needed.

I`ll hold on to my papers, thank you very much.

[SyBerWoLff]

tell everyone, that diploma isn`t needed.

It's not everyone, just MOST art careers, For anything else of course you need a degree, but not so much in art.

[Alice Shade]

Really?

I know about a dosen artists, who are currently slaving away at their diplomas, cause every place, that`d hire them for art work promptly asks "College education?", and shoves them out of door, it answer is not "I have a diploma in...".

In any case, nevermind. I see you prefer to be optimistic... Your choice, and your head you`re putting at stake. I hope you will retain your optimism, while doing black hours at minimal-wage job too.

[AaronD]

He could land a job, many people without a college education have. It is less likely, but he could just as well be a brilliant artist who sells millions of prints as the minimum wage worker you just predicted.

[SyBerWoLff]

He could land a job, many people without a college education have. It is less likely, but he could just as well be a brilliant artist who sells millions of prints as the minimum wage worker you just predicted.

Thank you aaron.

[AaronD]

He could land a job, many people without a college education have. It is less likely, but he could just as well be a brilliant artist who sells millions of prints as the minimum wage worker you just predicted.

Thank you aaron.

Sure, anytime.

[Alice Shade]

Key words here are "less likely".

No offence, Syber, but you don`t strike me as a genius.

Smart for your age, yes, but not something outstanding.

Good portfolio is nice, but there`d be another three guys just like you, with equally good, or better, portfolios, who`d want same place as you. And quite likely, one or two guys with diploma, as well. Now, with both good portfolio AND diploma, you weed off pretty much over half competition off the bat - those with diplomas and sucky portfolios, and those without diplomas and portfolios not marginally better, then yours.

Colleges exist NOT only for diplomas too, as well, and while there`s plenty of idiocy around them, they DO give some skills to talk of.

And the main skill is ability to work. Not the "Hey, I wanna do that" kind of work, but systematic day-to-day work. In college, main thing is not homeworks and learning stuff. It`s learning, how to meet deadlines, how to get things done with insufficient information on them, how to DRAW, even.
Guys with diplomas have fair part of their portfolios composed from their student works - both common exercises and own works, compiled for assignments or just for getting the skills down to sinch.



Syber, if you think you are ABLE to skip over that - well, go ahead, don`t let me stop you. But I`m very serious on that. Do not, unless you are completely sure. Don`t let yourself get caught in teenage maximalism. You`re not superhuman. It all sounds easy and well for now, but mark my words - making it done is one hell of a lot tougher then it sounds.

A lot of people with potential did like you - and ended up as night watchmwen, construction workers and McDonalds servers.

[SyBerWoLff]

I know I'm not a genious, far from it. Thank you for saying I'm smart. I pride myself in my intelligence but I recognize it's limits. I always approach things such as this with the mindset that 'yes, I may be good, may be great, but there is always someone better.'

[AaronD]

I hate that mentality. I don't think "somebody is always better," because it is an excuse not to try your hardest to be the best you can at what you do, just because somebody is always better anyway.

[Alice Shade]

You misunderstand the point, Aaron.


It`s not - "There`s always someone better, so I`m not going to bother"

It`s - "There`s always a good chance, that someone better can show up, so I`d better get better myself damn fast, before he comes"

[Kokoba]

If you feel like you SHOULD be in some program, make arrangements (or have a parent make arrangements) to be tested and sorted into it ASAP, so then you can be entitled to whatever.

How would I go about getting tested?

This I can't help you with (much, anyway) on two counts:

1. I was tested for gifted very young. I was picked out fairly early into my first year of elementary school, but they held off on testing me until second grade. I had just switched schools and my parents thought that would be too much for me. In any case, I was too young to know what was going on besides that this strange tall man wanted me to do some puzzles and answer some questions for him.

2. I went to school in Pennsylvania, not New York--even if I knew what to do in PA, in NY it might be completely different.

You could talk to a REAL headshrink and get an IQ test as well as a battery of other things (testing for, I dunno, Asperger's Syndrome, ADD, dyslexia, whatever) and if something comes up positive then use that as leverage, if possible.

But your bio teacher sounds like your best bet, in all honesty. Ask her for some help.