PDA

View Full Version : PRO or ANTI Abortion.


SAVAGE
September 13th, 2006, 12:08 AM
I am a little bit of both. I do not believe that abortion should be a form of birth control. I believe that the potential life once conceived should be allowed to develop.

I believe that life begins the moment a person or foetus takes in oxygen and begins to feed and grow.

I am pro abortion on issues like pregnacy as a result of incest or rape.

I think that there needs to be a balance on the issue, as there are many variations to this argument.

I will present both sides (I dont neccesarily agree with all points from both sides, but I will try to present them in an unbiased fashion).

PRO LIFE

Personhood at conception is a religious belief, not a provable biological fact. Mormon and some Fundamentalist churches believe in personhood at conception; Judaism holds that it begins at birth and abortion is not murder; ensoulment theories vary widely within Protestantism. The religious community will never reach consensus on the definition of a "person" or when abortion is morally justifi

We are pro-choice. "Pro-abortion" is inaccurate, as it implies favoring abortion over childbirth. We support reproductive freedom, which means that an individual woman should be able to make her own choice.

Laws have never stopped abortion, but only relegated it to back-alley butchers. The hypocrisy is clear: when illegal abortion was the leading killer of pregnant women in the U.S., there was no Right to Life (RTL) organization.

The fetus is totally dependent on the body of the woman for its life support and is physically attached to her by the placenta and umbilicus. The health of the fetus is directly related to the health of the pregnant woman. Only at birth are they separate.

Margaret Sanger said, "No woman can call herself free who does not own and control her own body." This concept is fundamental for women.

No thoughtful person denies that the fetus is a potential person and that it looks increasingly human as it develops from a fertilized egg to a full-term fetus ready for birth. What we oppose is stopping legal abortion by legislating personhood at so me moment before birth.

If "person" were defined as beginning at conception, then abortion would be the crime of murder. Women's bodies, rights and health would be subordinated to the protection of the embryo. No abortions would be permitted for any reason, including rape or incest. Each miscarriage would have to be investigated. The legal consequences of such an amendment would be catastrophic.

For more go here:

http://www.choicematters.org/articles/procon.html

So whats your take?















Human life begins at conception. Therefore, abortion is murder of a person.

Abortion should not be legal in the U.S. Abortion must be stopped. The right to life must be protected.

Abortion is morally wrong.

It is imperative to pass laws to stop this trend.

The fetus is in no real sense "part" of the mother, but is a separate and distinct human being.

The right of the unborn to live supersedes any right of a woman to "control her own body."

Women have abortions for their own convenience or on "whim."

Pro-choice people insist that the fetus is nothing but a worthless blob of tissue. They refuse to face the fact that there's a miniature person in that womb.

Pro-abortionists who criticize the Roman Catholic Church are anti-Catholic bigots.

Pro-abortionists are turning the abortion issue into a religious was by saying that the opposition to abortion comes from religious groups trying to foist their beliefs on the nation.

Abortion is wrong because it is taking a human life.

Abortion is not mentioned anywhere in the Constitution. Where do pro-abortionists get the idea that abortion is a constitutional right?

There should be a national referendum on abortion so the people can decide if they want it. The majority rules in a democracy.

Abortion should not be permitted for rape because it is wrong to punish a child for the sin of the father. Besides, pregnancy rarely happens from rape. Women can get immediate medical treatment to prevent pregnancy.

She had her fun, now let her pay for it. If you have sex, you should expect to get pregnant and pay the consequences.

PRO CHOICE

Nanashi
September 13th, 2006, 04:11 AM
100% pro-choice.

Even if just used as a 'contraceptive' (if you can call it that, since technicly they are pregnant at that point.)

Fallen Hero
September 13th, 2006, 11:44 AM
100% pro-choice.

Even if just used as a 'contraceptive' (if you can call it that, since technicly they are pregnant at that point.)

Ditto.

SAVAGE
September 4th, 2007, 07:19 AM
Just bumping a few old threads that the newbies havent come across.

Discuss.

Vexx
September 4th, 2007, 01:13 PM
Well, I do think it's wrong to say "woops, got pregnant again! Let's get the coathanger!" But I do believe that the woman has 100% choice of the matter, the father can say a few points but it's not his body.
I don't really think of a fetus as alive untill it is able to live when out of a mother's body, such as several months in. By the time it's in that stage, i say it'd be wrong to abort it....When it's still the size of a peanut....not as much.
If abortion is murder, condoms are weapons of mass destruction.

I don't really have any children of my own or have ever concieved any, so I can't honostly say if it's wrong or not from the eyes of someone with them...I'll just say I'm not sure if I'm pro/anti-abortion, but I am definately pro-choice.

AaronD
September 4th, 2007, 04:27 PM
I'm pro-choice, because I agree that it's not a person until it's born, and because rape victims, teens, or just anybody who didn't want/can't handle the needs of a child shouldn't have to. On the same note as this, let's discuss stem cell research using aborted fetises, which I am also not opposed to.

Fallen Hero
September 4th, 2007, 06:47 PM
well, if it is going to die anyways, why not use what we can to benefit the living.

SAVAGE
September 4th, 2007, 09:02 PM
As I said my stance is that it should be legal, but also it should be controlled.

Women do die from the procedure, it isnt without its risks.

http://www.hrtl.org/politicsworld_fijidie.htm

AaronD
September 4th, 2007, 09:10 PM
What parameters would you suggest?

SAVAGE
September 4th, 2007, 10:04 PM
What parameters would you suggest?

I couldnt say every contingency would be covered, but lets take the instance of rape, if that is the reason for the abortion than a police report or something should be given to the doctors.

I am not a law maker, and I guess it would be there job to sort all that stuff out.

I think the best way to avoid unwanted pregnancy is through empowerment and education.

Digs
September 5th, 2007, 04:08 AM
I don't get why people always say abortion is most acceptable in cases of rape and incest. If you believe that every single fertilised cell is a person, why is it okay to murder rapists' children and incest babies?

I think abortion is okay in any case that the potential mother bloody well feels like it, because until a fetus develops both a mind and a persona, it's not a person. It's just an object with amazing potential.

SAVAGE
September 5th, 2007, 05:55 AM
I don't get why people always say abortion is most acceptable in cases of rape and incest. If you believe that every single fertilised cell is a person, why is it okay to murder rapists' children and incest babies?

I think abortion is okay in any case that the potential mother bloody well feels like it, because until a fetus develops both a mind and a persona, it's not a person. It's just an object with amazing potential.

For me in any case, and please remebre this is merely my opinion, I think it has to do with state of mind. How would that mother feel if she had to constantly be reminded of the day she lost power.

Yes people rape is an act of power, not sex. I do alot of work (self defense)with rape victims and prostitutes and you have to be very careful with the victims you need to empower them first before attempting things like breaking ground locks etc. It is quite difficult when they se their instructor as a big hairy man covered in tats.....but so far I have a 100% rate, hopefully I can keep it that way.

Alice Shade
September 5th, 2007, 08:51 PM
Putting it bluntly, it`s woman`s choice.

As long as fetus is attached by umbilical, it`s a part of woman`s body, so she can do whatever she deems right.

There are many issues, which would warrant the abortion - too many and too diverse to discuss.

So, I`ll address only one of the main issues against abortion - using it as birth control. Frankly, this procedure is far from mundane, and is definitely not pleasant. Nor without consequences.

So, basically, if some young and dumb slut aborts her mistakes, chances are she won`t be able to do it right later. Ergo, serving the natural selection once again. So... Go for it.

Digs
September 5th, 2007, 09:17 PM
I understand well that rape is an extremely personal crime, being a student of psychology and degreed in criminal justice. I'm just looking for consistency in the views of my opponents. If an arguer thinks that A) murder is bad and that B) abortion is the murder of a person, then why should some emotional turmoil on the part of a mother make murder acceptable? For comparison, post-partem depression suffers who, oh I don't know, drown their children like that lady in Texas a while back that the news latched onto don't get that consideration, though admittedly they're actually killing confirmed persons with real, working personas.

Useful line of thought to pursue if you want a glimpse at the motivations of anti-abortion thinkers. They think they're fighting a nearly nationwide murder machine.

bornagaingooglist
September 6th, 2007, 04:10 AM
I'm pro-choice (as everyone else here is).
If a child is conceived through rape or honest accident (condom breaks, etc) with a mother and/or father that doesn't want it, it's better the just to "take care of it" (if you will) than subject the poor thing to a life of either cruel parents or hoping from one foster home to another.
I also agree with the idea that abortion should not be used as birth control.
I think they should make the procedure a little more costly for those who don't bother taking responsibility for their actions. Or at least, the clinics should take the time to assess the situation before carrying out the procedure.

Alice Shade
September 6th, 2007, 11:29 AM
Well, Digs, the main problem with "abortion is murder" thing, is that it`s main assertion is fallacious.

If we`ll take it for axiom, that fetus is already a living being you can murder, I will open human cloning clinic, and claim it`d be "murder" to shut it down, because there are numerous fetuses in the tanks.

I prefer to stick to axiom - as long as it does not exhibits sapience, it`s not a murder. Arguably, that could be interpreted as an assertion, that babies are game for killing, but that`s wrong. They do exhibit sapience - albeit very immature, but they do.

GeoffBoulton
September 6th, 2007, 09:18 PM
George Carlin on abortion ;-) (http://youtube.com/watch?v=MrXvDXVhqfU)

wuzupbling22
September 8th, 2007, 04:25 AM
Pro choice

RedKitty
September 8th, 2007, 09:57 AM
I believe women should always have the choice. The choice should definitly NOT be the churches!

I've heard quite a few storys were girls and women had to go to another doctor because their present one refused to help them. Or that poor girl in Ireland who was carrying a child without a brain. They actually expected here to carry it till full term knowing it would not survive being born :(

I still would prefer that it would not be necesarry, but that choice is no mine.

iceman22
September 8th, 2007, 02:14 PM
I believe women should always have the choice. The choice should definitly NOT be the churches!



i agree with this.

i am pro abortion and especially living near a lot of council estates i see a lot of youmg mothers who have had their education wrecked for what was probably a one night stand.

the town where i live has, supposedly, the highest teen pregnancy rate in Europe which is silly really because its just a wasted oppurtunity at life. im all for having kids but only when your truly happy with your life and you have a safe and sustainable place for them to grow up in.

init6
September 11th, 2007, 10:24 PM
my default setting for this would be Pro choice. Al thou I could care less about this topic. However, stem cell research I care a lot about. and they clash only in the sense both talk about when do these group of cells become a human. Thats were I say Pro Choice and get some more fucking steam cell research done.

Digs
September 11th, 2007, 10:55 PM
Eh, take heart, init. Even if the United States ' refuses to do the research, some other nation will eventually. I agree that our current refusal in the face of the suffering caused by so many diseases that could be negated is shameful.