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Old December 28th, 2006, 07:14 PM   #1
Eleleth 4/4
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Default Jesus is Satan - So Says the Bible

Now many know Lucifer as another name for Satan, or Satan's name before he rebelled against God and was cast out of Heaven. Now the Bible has very little to say about Lucifer but in less than five minutes I will show that Lucifer is in fact Jesus by what the Bible has to say about him.

Alright the english 'Lucifer' appears in the Bible, King James Version only, once in Isaiah 14:12...

Quote:
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
All other versions of the Bible do not use the word 'Lucifer' but 'day star', 'son of dawn' or 'morning star' in Isaiah 14:12. To find out why we look to the Latin Vulgate version of Isaiah 14:12....

Quote:
quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes
The English translation simply took the latin 'lucifer' and capitalized it to make 'Lucifer'. The latin 'lucifer' is found in the Bible twice, the other passage is 2 Peter 1:19....

Quote:
et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris
This time 'lucifer' was translated into english as....

Quote:
And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.
So once the latin 'lucifer' is translated to 'Lucifer', another name for Satan, and the second time its translated to 'morning star', so who or what is this morning star? The 'morning star' appears twice in the KJ Version of the Bible, keeping in mind the KJV is the only version that has the english 'Lucifer' translation, in Revelation 2:28 and in Revelation 22:16 which reads....

Quote:
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Jesus clearly calls himself the 'morning star' or 'Lucifer'. So if Lucifer is Satan, which the majority of Christians will say, then Jesus is Satan as well.
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Old December 28th, 2006, 11:33 PM   #2
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Well...

Both were cast down to repent for sins, ultimately.

But I think it`s just issue of translation, as "lucifer" on latin just means something akin to "lightbringer". I think, that it should not be treated as a desciption of certain person, but rather as a grouped name for everyone bringing light.

However, it`s very suspicious, that Jesus and Satan were both at some points described as "lucifer". Specially considering, that Satan was, theoretically, the most powerful of angels (And yes, I would think, that god`s son would be the most powerful under god, in the celestial hierarchy, too.)
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Old December 29th, 2006, 12:20 AM   #3
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Great points Alice, I admit that this is only the tip of the iceberg, so to speak, but a very useful argument to use when debating a "the Bible is the word of God" Christian. They say that and you have a Jesus-Satan pie to throw in their face. Another useful argument to use against the "I dont read the KJ version of the Bible its full of errors" Christian who still relies on the KJV when they go on about Lucifer/Satan, the KJV being the only version of the Bible with the word 'Lucifer' in it.

If it wasnt for the KJV of the Bible intentionally making this translational error, I do believe it was intentional, there would be no 'Lucifer'. There would however still be 'light-bearers', 'light-bringers', 'morning stars' and other Venus related archetypes.

But to keep with the Jesus-Satan connection further points of interest to bring up are....

Quote:
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up. (John 3:13-14)
No man has ascended to heaven but he that has fallen from heaven, even the Son of Man(Jesus). - could be taken as a reference to Satan's fall.

As Moses lifted the seprent in the wilderness so must the Son of Man be lifted up. - The serpent in the Garden of Eden is also said to be Satan, God cursed the serpent to crawl on its belly after tempting Eve, so Jesus/Satan/Serpent needed to be lifted back up to his rightful place.

Supporting evidence that Jesus is the serpent from the Garden....

Quote:
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? (John 10:34)
"I said" - where does Jesus or anyone say "ye are gods" in the OT?

Quote:
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. (Genesis 3:4-5)
Well the serpent said it!

But I'm just discussing this as possible arguments to use if anyone was so inclined, just trying to help. But this does go deeper, I can take it much deeper lol. I can hit them from multiple angles. As I said agruing from an atheist persepctive has gotten me nowhere but using the Bible to mess with them works.
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Old December 29th, 2006, 01:00 AM   #4
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They have ears, but they do not hear. They have eyes, but they do not see.

It is ironic, that quote from bible, used to describe heathens, describes christians just as precisely.

For they have eyes and ears, yet they close them to reason.

So, to reason with them, one has to find reasons they would listen to.
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Old December 30th, 2006, 01:14 PM   #5
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The Catholic Douay-Rheims bible http://www.drbo.org/ is quite interesting:

Isiah 14:12 has an additional note added to the text explaining the meaning of Lucifer

Quote:
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations?

12 "O Lucifer"... O day star. All this, according to the letter, is spoken of the king of Babylon. It may also be applied, in a spiritual sense, to Lucifer the prince of devils, who was created a bright angel, but fell by pride and rebellion against God.
After specifically referring to "O Lucifer" as "O day star" in the added note the reference in Peter 2 1:19 says:

Quote:
19 And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
I will certainly be raising this issue here in Poland
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Old October 10th, 2007, 04:26 AM   #6
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Default Re: Jesus is Satan - So Says the Bible

Psalm 82 is where he says they are "gods" noting the lower case...the snake said "as gods" Psalm 82:6 is verbatim "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are achildren of the most High."
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