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#2 | ||||
Certified Maple Leaf
Googlist
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,008
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"Oh you are good." - rzm61 "If you want to make God laugh, tell him your future plans" - Woody Allen "I have too much respect for the idea of God to make it responsible for such an absurd world." - Georges Duhamel "What does an agnostic, dyslexic insomniac do? Stays up all night and wonders if there is a dog." -Unknown |
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#3 |
Lurk moar!
Scion of Google
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Under the stairs!
Posts: 2,287
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![]() If the whole world worked like that, we would be in the dark ages again. Respect given is respect earned. That is the way of the world. I can disagree with s.o. beliefs, but I need to tolerate them. Tolerance does not me changing myself to be more like them or changing them to be more like me; rather that I do not look down upon them for their beliefs and that I accept that that is what they believe and it is different from my own beliefs.
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#4 | ||||
Member
Google Adept
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Beliefs in spite of the evidence are irrational. It is irrational to believe that unicorns exist, even though no relable witness has ever seen one. Quote:
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You're right about respect needing to be earned though (if that's what you meant; I'm not exactly sure what the meaning of that bit was); if you can't back your beliefs up with evidence then they don't deserve respect because they haven't earned any. And respecting a person is not the same as respecting their beliefs. I have friends who're Christian, and though I certainly don't respect the belief that JHWH created the universe (in fact I find the idea laughable) I still respect them and will continue to be friends with them. No one's perfect. Everyone has flaws, and it's still possible to respect them because their good qualities outweigh them. Wallsy.
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"Wallsy, you're brilliant." - Steve420. "You're great, Wallsy." - scikidus "YOU MAKE THE MOST SENSE OF ANYONE I HAVE EVER SEEN ON THIS FORUM" - googleisanoobtheFORTH "I WAS WRONG. Completely and utterly wrong." - scikidus "Alright, I guess you're right in that case. You win." - scikidus "I completely agree with Wallsy." - scikidus "Wallsy is 100% correct 100% of the time." -Tsun |
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#5 |
Lurk moar!
Scion of Google
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Under the stairs!
Posts: 2,287
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![]() Then we are really arguing a similar point... but wording it differently.
The dark ages I mean in an extreme case of hardline beliefs, we could potentially go back to the dark ages in regards to persecution |
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#6 |
resident
Google Searcher
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 75
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![]() the respect thing is definitely in my mind atm. i've always been pretty knowledgeable about christian beliefs, being raised a catholic and all, but now that i'm digging deeper into the history of such things, and seeing just how much bull shit is fed as truth to good, unquestioning believers, I'm starting to find myself getting pissed at said people for being willfully ignorant. (and by ignorant i do not mean in intelligence but in reason).
Now i'm trying to ride the line between being an informant of factual information and being disrespectful.
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"Drink, In Rememberance of Me." -Jesus H. Christ Christianity - The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree... yeah, makes perfect sense. -- Anon., found on the web. |
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#7 | |
Minister
Googlist
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Skierniewice, Central Poland
Posts: 1,694
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This whole I'm going to make you feel guilty for pointing out the blatantly obvious shortcomings in my beliefs by calling you disrespectful is exactly how they've managed to stay in power for so long. ![]()
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Seeing things as you want them to be rather than how they are is dishonest to the one person that matters the most, yourself. It’s sad to see when humans let this dogma taught by religion funnel over in to other unrelated areas of their life. Like how to treat their wife, their children, themselves, etc. Losing sight of how things are, rather than how you want them to be is somewhere at the core of all the people who have killed in the name of religion. |
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#8 |
Member
Google Adept
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![]() I see two points here. I wouldn't say that irrational beliefs should not be tolerated because, what is tolerating them anyway? Wallsy, you have said you have Christian friends, that means that, to some extent, you "tolerate" them having these beliefs.
What exactly do you mean by "tolerate"? I won't respect irrational religious beliefs any more that I respect Bayern München fans, socialists and other misguided individuals. But I do "tolerate" them. I don't have any socialist friends, but I know a lot of Bayern München fans, and it isn't a problem for me to see them wearing their team's paraphernalia, or shouting in the street after they've won a game. I don't know if I'm making sense, I'm a little bit off this week. (or couple of years...) The other point is the official enforcement of irrational beliefs. i.e. not selling alcohol on sundays, criminalization of drug use, to name a few not very important ones. In this case I agree with Wallsy. |
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#9 |
Member
Google Adept
Join Date: May 2007
Location: In the real world.
Posts: 969
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![]() Anyone who lets the fog down can see that putting heroin addicts in prison is basically getting no where.
I think the argument that addicts will only give up 'if they really want to' tends to overlook that we can influence people. I only pay taxes because 'I really want to' in the sense that the alternatives are ultimately worse. Though it is pretty clear (as I said) that locking up the druggies isn't putting them in an enviroment that is going to give them an incentive to give up drugs. Prison is certainly an expensive way of making bad people worse. Though in the case of addicts I also agree the label 'bad' doesn't fit at all well.
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۞ Extreme religion is extremely harmful. Moderate religion is moderately harmful. Mild religion is mildly harmful. Atheism simply takes the implied neutralising process to its natural conclusion. |
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#10 |
resident
Google Worshipper
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![]() The only way to deal with this problem permanently is to physically rewrite the human brain, removing Fear, Hatred, Anger, the will to Dominate, and Jealousy. After that, beliefs won't matter because nobody will have beliefs forced upon them, and if they're brought up, no one will feel the need to convert the other.
As this option is not yet feasible, just mind your own business, and things will unfold in a chaotic manner as it naturally should.
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