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Serious Discussion Come in and discuss world-critical matters: Science, Politics, Current Events, Religion, etc. This forum is for those wishing to debate topics so please keep on-topic and avoid short posts simply to say 'I agree', etc. |
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#3 | ||
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Furthermore, I've never seen any other species capable of creating castles or sand castles, so through deduction I can safely assume it was a human, not a bird, fish or platypus, who made it. With living things, there are two sides of looking at it. On the one hand, I have seen many living things created through unintelligent actions such as sex, cell division or just hanging out waiting for the bees. On the other hand, I've never seen anyone or anything create even one animal, much less a billion species of animals, in a short period of time out of thin air, so I really have no reason to assume that's where we came from. So while I agree that humans and similar animals are far too complex to have spontaneously popped into existence, and therefore must assume that's not what happened, this assumption doesn't mean I have to assume some god was involved. The idea that the complex evolved over periods of time from the simple is not new and is shown in many areas of our lives. The only thing hard to swallow about abiogenesis is the part where we went from random elements to self-replicating patterns. As soon as the object can self-replicate, and there can be errors in the replication, evolution is the natural consequence. You talk about very low odds, but I think you've missed the magnitude of how many places didn't spawn life. Out of an estimated 10^21 stars in the known universe, thousands to millions of objects floating around each of those stars, untold numbers of chemical interactions every second on each of those objects, and some nine billion years (that's roughly 3 * 10^17 seconds) of time, is it really so far-fetched to think that one of them has a place with the right elements at the right temperature to allow a single, randomly-formed element with the property of self-replication?
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#4 | ||||||||
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,101
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I await the time when religion and science truly join - when the universe is acknowldged as God. Quote:
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Cheers.
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"Oh you are good." - rzm61 "If you want to make God laugh, tell him your future plans" - Woody Allen "I have too much respect for the idea of God to make it responsible for such an absurd world." - Georges Duhamel "What does an agnostic, dyslexic insomniac do? Stays up all night and wonders if there is a dog." -Unknown |
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#5 | |
Kicker of Jams
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Forty Five Minutes from my College
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![]() I can think of no other way to describe that quote.
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How can God be perfect? Everything He ever makes dies. - George Carlin Economic Left/Right: -5.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.36 |
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#6 | |
House MD
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And faith in oneself and others is what I use! Why do I need to go elsewhere?
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"If Christ were here there is one thing he would not be--a Christian." ~ Mark Twain "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."~Gandhi "If that thing had said it was from *beyond* the universe, I'd have believed it. But before? Impossible. "~The Doctor referring to Satan |
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#7 |
Venerable Member
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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![]() All right, here's a question I've been pondering for awhile: for an after-life to exist, does that also require a god to exist? In other words, can you have an after-life without any sort of deity? (This of course, presumes life after death--a topic for debate in and of itself.)
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The possibility of a god does not increase the possibility your religion is true. -Anon. |
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#8 | |
Senior Member
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![]() Why would you need a god for an afterlife? If we have some type of soul that moves to another world after we die, why would the physics behind that transformation require a god any more than the physics behind this world?
This is my problem with the whole idea of "supernatural". At some level, physics describes how everything works. Gods, ghosts, spirits and the like are all bound by those physics. So there might be something above our level of nature, but ultimately anything that exists is natural. Unless we define God = Reality, god is just another guy. Maybe he/she/it created our spacetime, maybe not. Likewise, if there is an afterlife, maybe a god did it, maybe not. But there's no more reason to say "clearly an afterlife could only be created by a god" than to say "clearly a snowflake is far too ordered to be created by anything but a god".
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#9 | |
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Bad site. I think we give this type of thing just entirely too much time, thought, attention, and emotion in the answering of them. But, that's my opinion. I'd just move on and do other things. Obviously the fundie mentality is just nutz. I suppose it is the path of some to try to talk rationally to them, but they are sick. So why talk sensibly to people who are out-of-their mind zealot zombies who've given their power to the pulpit, which is just another word for satan. The irony of the jesus trip is that those most pious are often the worst offenders of any word of truth at all. Give them a rest. Karma usually gets these buggers in the end. ![]() Let them eat cake.
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"Hardly had she brought one gentleman into the little pantry behind the office on the ground floor and helped him off with his overcoat than the wheezy hall-door bell clanged again and she had to scamper along the bare hallway to let in another guest." - The Dead, James Joyce |
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