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Old December 8th, 2008, 05:37 AM   #1
Al Farabi
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Default Questions For Atheists To Answer

Alright time to put the philosophical ball in your court.


1. Is there a non-material world?

2. If not, would it be a fair conclusion to draw that a perfect, complete Physics would describe, and be able to predict reliably on, all that exists?

3. If so, can free will exist in a perfectly predictible universe? If not, what would it not describe and predict?

4. Is either of those conclusions satisfactory?
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Old December 8th, 2008, 06:36 AM   #2
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Default Re: Questions For Atheists To Answer

Hey, it's Mr. Farabi. Wow...this sounds as if it might be the sort of person that I am vaguely familiar with. However, I wouldn't purport to be in the same court with such a mighty texter as thou appeareth.

I just mainly barter in nonsense and assorted ramblings. Not things that actually make the mind go in any sort of an orderly fashion. But...it's nice to make your acquaintance, sir!

Besides, I'm not nearly atheist enough to answer anything here.
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Old December 8th, 2008, 12:03 PM   #3
Tsar Phalanxia
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Default Re: Questions For Atheists To Answer

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Originally Said by Al Farabi View Post
1. Is there a non-material world?
Define non-material. If you mean areas of reality we can't see, then yes, all the way up to the 10th dimension.

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2. If not, would it be a fair conclusion to draw that a perfect, complete Physics would describe, and be able to predict reliably on, all that exists?
No. Physics doesn't work like that. With quantum physics and chaos theory, the rate at which quantum particles decline is totally random. I'm, sure Sciki could answer that better than me.

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3. If so, can free will exist in a perfectly predictible universe? If not, what would it not describe and predict?
We have the illusion of free will, do we not? I can decide to raise my hand, and before doing so, choose not to. Whether physics predicted I would do that all along is irrelevant, as our brains have evolved to create ther illusion of free will.

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4. Is either of those conclusions satisfactory?
INMHO; yes. I'm content with what I have, and although if an oppourtunity arose to take complete free will, I would probably take it.
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Old December 8th, 2008, 02:52 PM   #4
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Default Re: Questions For Atheists To Answer

Quote:
Originally Said by Al Farabi View Post
Alright time to put the philosophical ball in your court.


1. Is there a non-material world?
As in, a spiritual world? There might be, but until it starts interfering with our observable world in some way, we have no evidence either way, so from a scientific perspective it is not helpful to assume its existence.
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2. If not, would it be a fair conclusion to draw that a perfect, complete Physics would describe, and be able to predict reliably on, all that exists?
Actually, no. We know that no set of Physics will ever be perfect. A man named Godel proved that, inderectly at least, using his Incompleteness theorems.

Basically, Godel showed that any mathematical structure with a finite set of axioms will have certain unsolvable problems in it, i.e. problems to which we cannot know if there is an answer.

Sicne physcis is rooted in mathematics, the same principles apply. We will eventually find that there are some problems we cannot solve. So how can physcis ever be perfect? And why would we want it to be perfect? We're always tryign to learn more. The day mankind decides that physcis is perfect and hangs its collective scientific hat on the hook is the day that I no longer wish to be a human.
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3. If so, can free will exist in a perfectly predictible universe? If not, what would it not describe and predict?
We cannot predict the future with 100% accuracy, because quantum flucuations will nto allow it. Quantum mechanics prohibits 100% accumulation fo knowledge. We have no idea whther a particle will go left or right when given two options.

So free will seems safe. Time travel into the past is not forbidden, but it is now believed that this breaks off alternative timelines. Your free will is safe.
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4. Is either of those conclusions satisfactory?
Yes, quite. We are always learnign mroe, but we will never know it all.
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Old December 8th, 2008, 08:54 PM   #5
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Default Re: Questions For Atheists To Answer

Quote:
Originally Said by Al Farabi View Post
Alright time to put the philosophical ball in your court.


1. Is there a non-material world?

2. If not, would it be a fair conclusion to draw that a perfect, complete Physics would describe, and be able to predict reliably on, all that exists?

3. If so, can free will exist in a perfectly predictible universe? If not, what would it not describe and predict?

4. Is either of those conclusions satisfactory?
That ball was invented in our court!

1. "We are living in a material world and I am a material girl" Non-material.... probably would not work for Madonna and since she has a 1 word name like God I guess she is the authority on that!

2. No, The universe is chaos.

3.Free will would exist but using certain evaluation tools and stacks of equations could be predicted.

4. Nothing should ever be Satisfactory. Someone once said you only got the answer because you gave up.
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Old December 8th, 2008, 09:01 PM   #6
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Default Re: Questions For Atheists To Answer

I mean non-material in its most literal sense: not made up of matter.

And if we are confident that we can never really, fundementally, be sure about anything (due to chaos theory), why is searching for knowledge good?


also,
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4. Nothing should ever be Satisfactory. Someone once said you only got the answer because you gave up.
I like this
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Old December 8th, 2008, 09:54 PM   #7
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Default Re: Questions For Atheists To Answer

Quote:
Originally Said by Al Farabi View Post
I mean non-material in its most literal sense: not made up of matter.

And if we are confident that we can never really, fundementally, be sure about anything (due to chaos theory), why is searching for knowledge good?


also,


I like this


You are not searching for Knowledge more you are searching for understanding, Chaos may not be easy to understand but it can be understood. When you understand something you can then accept it and in accepting it it can grant you peace of mind

I just realized i added logic to my joking around... oh well.

BTW I am one of the Local Goofballs. My name minus Mofo explains me. Smart and goofy!
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"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."~Gandhi
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Old December 8th, 2008, 10:10 PM   #8
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Default Re: Questions For Atheists To Answer

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And if we are confident that we can never really, fundementally, be sure about anything (due to chaos theory), why is searching for knowledge good?
Because we're curious creatures by nature. We want to be entertained, and we want to understand. Also, searchign for knowledge improves the quality of our lives. Even if something as simple as Boyle's law had never been found, then the steam and the internal combustion engines would never have been developed. Our civilization would never have gone global.
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Old December 9th, 2008, 08:30 AM   #9
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Default Re: Questions For Atheists To Answer

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I mean non-material in its most literal sense: not made up of matter.
I believe that's what we call "energy". Anything that can be measured as a quantity is energy in one form or another, which includes, but is not limited to, matter/mass.
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Old December 9th, 2008, 07:53 PM   #10
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Default Re: Questions For Atheists To Answer

can energy be directly interacted with?
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