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Old March 15th, 2009, 04:33 AM   #1
Al Farabi
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Default godisimaginary.com refuted

Sam the Moderately Wize sent me a link: www.godisimaginary.com
It's a list of "proofs" that God is imaginary. Here they are, one by one, refuted.
  1. Try praying
  2. Statistically analyze prayer

Both of these are using the fact that God does not respond to prayers in any statistically important way as evidence of His non-existence. That is not logically sound. All it is evidence of is that prayers are not answered.

Look at all historical gods

There have been other religions that no longer have believers. Therefore...God is imaginary? Hmm. I don't think this is really a proof. Or logical at all.

Think about science

Here the author argues that science can only proceed by assuming that God is imaginary and prayer is meaningless. He evidences this with the story of the discovery of penicillin, noting that if fleming had assumed the bacterial death was due to a miracle he would not have made his discovery.

This is silly. God existing does not remove causality. Do religious people think that a thrown ball moving is a miracle?

Read the Bible

Some of the stuff in the bible goes against our societal ideals. Therefore God doesn't exist. I hope you can all see why this is crazy.

Ponder God's plan

God having an absolute plan goes against the idea of God granting prayers. That's true. Therefore either God does not have a plan or God does not answer prayers, or God does not do either. Where does this prove that He does not exist?

Understand religious delusion

This one is a thinly veiled bandwagon argument. If enough people think something is false, it must be false. This is obviously logically spurious. Towards the end, the author reasserts once more that prayer doesn't work. It doesn't disprove god any more than last time.

Think about Near Death Experiences

Okay so this one doesn't even try to disprove God. All it says is that Near Death Experiences aren't supernatural. Nice.

Understand ambiguity

Prayers again. They don't work. Thank you for that.

Watch the offering plate

Churches don't get money given to them by God in response to prayers! Therefore God is Imaginary! Wait...I've heard this argument before...

Notice that there is no scientific evidenc
See the magic

Sorry author, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

Take a look at slavery

Let me actually just grab a quote for this one. "Given the fact that the Bible clearly condones slavery, your common sense should be telling you that God is imaginary."

...huh.


Examine Jesus' miracles
Examine Jesus' resurrection

Absence of evidence again. Hmm I'm sensing a pattern here.

Contemplate the contradictions

People condradict themselves, but this is not evidence against God

Think about Leprechauns

"There is absolutely no evidence indicating that God exists. There is a tremendous amount of empirical evidence that God does not exist. Therefore we can conclusively say that God is imaginary."

Well firstly, there is actually no empirical evidence that God does not exists. Secondly, this is an extremely weak argument. Consider my absence form these boards. There was no evidence to you that I existed, and all of the available evidence pointed to my non-existance. Clearly, however, I do.

Imagine heaven

The christian afterlife sounds a bit wacky to me. Therefore the universe must not have a creator.

Not logical.

Notice that you ignore Jesus

You don't listen to jesus! Therefore God does not exist! Please don't examine my logic!

Notice your church

NEITHER DO CHURCHES! FURTHER PROOF!

Understand Jesus' core message

The bible's self contradictions, again, are not evidence of God's nonexistance.

Count all the people God wants to murder

The bible says God wants you to kill people who ignore your religion. You don't do this. Therefore God does not exist?

Listen to the Doxology

This argument says that if all blessings came from God, they would be evenly distributed. Even ignoring how ridiculous this is, how does it disprove God?

Ask why religion causes so many problems

Religion causes problems, therefore God does not exist? The author continues to beat around the bush, not offering any real evidence and merely bashing the idea of religion.

Understand evolution and abiogenesis

This is a pretty standard anti-God argument, but doesn't really disprove God. Just because God likely didn't place the first cell on the planet manually (I say likely because actually, we don't KNOW either way) does not mean He does not exist.

Notice that the Bible's author is not "all-knowing"

I agree that God didn't write the bible. I don't however agree that whoever did was insane, or that this is evidence against God.

Actually llet me just say this now to save time. Listing things that God didn't do does not actually build a case against existance. That is a totally insane assumption to make.

Think about life after death

2 things: Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence for his soul arguments.

And even IF we don't have souls, in what way does that disprove God?

Notice how many gods you reject

This one is recycled from number 3: Historical Gods

Think about communion

The fact that some of the rituals of Christianity are wierd does not disprove God at all.

Examine God's sexism

This is Read The Bible and Think About Slavery again. Recycled arguments.

Understand that religion is superstition

Prayers again.

Talk to a theologian

The author is arguing that God didn't write the bible again. I feel like we are going in circles.

Contemplate the crucifixion

The bible is bizarre again.

Examine your health insurance policy

Prayers don't work again.

Notice Jesus' myopia

The bible is bizarre and self contradictory.

Realize that God is impossible

This one talks big, but actually is just another prayer one mixed with a bible one. So no new ground uncovered unfortunately.

Think about DNA

Another one that admits it does not refute God's existance.

Contemplate the divorce rate among Christians

Christians don't follow the bible. We have heard this before.

Realize that Jesus was a jer
Understand Christian motivations
Flip a coin
Listen when "God talks"
Realize that a "hidden God" is impossible
Think about a Christian housewife
Consider Noah's Ark
Ponder Pascal's Wager
Contemplate Creation

All of these are just repeating the same arguments he has already used but given as different examples.

Compare prayer to a lucky horseshoe
Look at who speaks for God
Ask Jesus to appear

And finishing off with 3 more arguments about prayer not working.

You should have noticed by now the pattern of repeating his arguments (which were sketchy at best to begin with). This is classic bulking up and is designed to make his arguments seem to have more weight despite their shocking logical inadequacy. I have seen far more convincing arguments here on these very boards. Stick to the good people here for convincing arguments. As far as I can see most of the vocal atheistic outlets on the net are just as bad as christian promotion groups.
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Old March 15th, 2009, 01:20 PM   #2
Tsar Phalanxia
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Default Re: godisimaginary.com refuted

God to see you back, Al.
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Old March 15th, 2009, 04:57 PM   #3
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Default Re: godisimaginary.com refuted

One point on the absence of evidence not being the evidence of absence. In a scientific model, yes, the lack of evidence does not directly build up to evidence contradicting the claim. However, if the tests are repeats hundreds of times, and still no evidence is found, the argument against existence begins to build.

//my two bits
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Old March 15th, 2009, 05:08 PM   #4
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Default Re: godisimaginary.com refuted

Sciki, that caused pain to what few remaining brain cells I have
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Old March 15th, 2009, 05:47 PM   #5
Al Farabi
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Default Re: godisimaginary.com refuted

Quote:
Originally Said by scikidus View Post
One point on the absence of evidence not being the evidence of absence. In a scientific model, yes, the lack of evidence does not directly build up to evidence contradicting the claim. However, if the tests are repeats hundreds of times, and still no evidence is found, the argument against existence begins to build.

//my two bits
Even so, It has to be said that this set of "proofs" is hardly convincing.
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Old March 15th, 2009, 06:41 PM   #6
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Default Re: godisimaginary.com refuted

at what point does a lack of evidence
become a convincing argument?
does proving there will always
be a lack of evidence prove
the Not theory, or is it a
schrodingers cat
XOR until tested?
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Old March 15th, 2009, 06:42 PM   #7
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Default Re: godisimaginary.com refuted

Quote:
Originally Said by Al Farabi View Post
Even so, It has to be said that this set of "proofs" is hardly convincing.
Agreed.
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Old March 15th, 2009, 06:46 PM   #8
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Default Re: godisimaginary.com refuted

Quote:
Originally Said by tagnostic View Post
schrodingers cat
XOR until tested?
THIS!
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Old March 15th, 2009, 06:53 PM   #9
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Default Re: godisimaginary.com refuted

And that, yes.
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Old March 15th, 2009, 10:03 PM   #10
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Default Re: godisimaginary.com refuted

Quote:
Originally Said by Al Farabi View Post
Sam the Moderately Wize sent me a link: www.godisimaginary.com
It's a list of "proofs" that God is imaginary. Here they are, one by one, refuted.
While most of your comments are right, you have not refuted any claims.

The "list of proofs" would be more accurately described as "proofs that the christian god (or muslim, or jewish, or other) is imaginary" and what you developed was the idea that the fact of those gods being imaginary (which you seemed to accept) does not prove that there is no god at all.

If that is so, please let us know which god do you believe is not imaginary.
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